Capabilities of a type 441 machine

[Valletta]

Hi everyone! 😊

I'm a saddler and harness maker (mostly English tack with just a little harness work), and I’m thinking about getting a Typical TW3-441D.

I’ve heard it's a solid machine for saddlery, but unfortunately I don’t know anyone nearby who owns one, so I’d really appreciate some input from those with experience.

My question is about its versatility. I’d need it to handle stitching through about 10mm (3/8" to 1/2") of harness leather plus a layer of soft foam (around 10mm thick) covered with thin, sensitive leather — like a thicker sheepskin nappa or a thinner calf.

Do you think this machine could manage that without damaging the delicate leather on the bottom?

Thanks so much in advance for any insight! 🙏

[Wizcrafts]

I own a Cowboy cb4500, which is a Juki 441 clone. It easily sews over 24mm thick stacks of whatever you have under the feet. It is a heavy duty sewing machine with two feet: inside alternating and outside presser feet. I would not refer to them as meant for delicate materials! The bottom appearance will vary with the presence or absence of the feed dog and its size. The stock feed dog is very wide and has a large oval hole in it. Soft stuff will be pushed down into that hole and may look dab compared to the top layer. To get around this problem, a couple of enterprising people have come up with narrower feed dogs that have smaller needle holes. I use one of these all the time. One maker is in Australia and the other is in the USA. They sell the narrow feed dog with a matching throat plate that is just wide enough to let the feed dog move freely. If you buy a 441 clone, then add the aftermarket narrow feed dog and throat plate, you will still be able to sew with #277 bonded thread, using a #200 (25) needle. The geometry of the needle matters too. you could experiment with different leather point shapes, and even a round point. Or, you might find somebody who owns such a machine in Hungary and send them some sample stacks of leather and foam to sew for you. Ask them to sew a separate line of thread with different needle point shapes. If they lack a particular shape that is available, maybe buy them a pack of 10 of those needles.

The main needle shapes I've used in my 441 clone are Schmetz "S" point (inline wedge), tri-point (3 sided), diamond point (4-sided), and round point. I believe that some companies make traditional tilted wedge points, called LL or LR. They produce slanted stitches. I just don't have any of those.

 

[bladegrinder]

I also have a Cowboy 4500, as to the thickness, it will do it. And as wizcrafts say you’d need to probably experiment some with needles, feet and foot pressure to get the appearance of the stitch you’re looking for. Here is a pic of a test piece I tried shortly after I got my machine, yes, it will sew thick!

[TomE]

I regularly sew padded straps as shown in your picture using TSC-441 clone (Cobra Class 4).  I typically sew 1-2 layers of 9-10 oz bridle leather over a pad of 1/8" neoprene wrapped with 4-5 oz chrome tanned leather.  The pad turns out fine with a #25 needle and #277 thread.  

I make English tack as well, and prefer to hand sew bridles, reins, and most repairs.  I use the 441 machine mainly for halters, and it did a good job sewing new shearling on a surcingle (8-9 oz strap).