Identification of a primitive saddle

[mbnaegle]

And another. This one has the same swells construction, but also has a horn. It's referred to as a Navajo ladies saddle. According to the description linked bellow, the horn was used to hold gear that the ladies would pack, including a baby board, while the mens saddle didn't have a horn because it would have been in their way hunting and fighting. It also has skirts, and the tree sides are similarly leather wrapped, so I think mine originally likely had skirts tied under the sides.

I find it interesting seeing the similarities between western saddles and these Navajo saddles.

Link

The link has more pictures of this example.

 

Edited Wednesday at 04:39 PM by mbnaegle

[mbnaegle]

Here's a good Write up from Bill Manns on Facebook: (link)

Rare NAVAJO SADDLE

I just acquired this 1870s-80s Navajo saddle in Arizona a couple of years ago. The Navajo were the only tribe that made and used a saddle that was strikingly unique. Other tribes made simple rawhide covered trees of a mostly generic design except for the women’s saddles of the Crow, Sioux and Blackfoot in the northern plains. The Navajo tree evolved over time but was inspired by the early Spanish saddles appearing in the Navajo lands in the 1600s-1700s. Later they were simplified along the style of Anglo saddles used by mountain men arriving in the Southwest during the early 1800s. Much of the leather used by the Navajo in saddle building was recycled from old, damaged Anglo saddles. Not at all uncommon to see cowboy saddle fenders on an old Navajo saddle. The sling seat, cushioning detail was common on several styles of American saddles in use during the 1700s well into the 1900s. The rigging is a simple variation on the Sam-Stagg rigging that became very popular on Western saddles starting about the time of the Civil War. Brass tacking is a common detail on all Navajo saddles. Navajo horsemen were till using these saddles up until WWII. A truly handsome saddle and beautiful relic of the early Navajo equine culture.

[Tove09Tilda]

23 hours ago, mbnaegle said:

Here's a good Write up from Bill Manns on Facebook: (link)

Rare NAVAJO SADDLE

I just acquired this 1870s-80s Navajo saddle in Arizona a couple of years ago. The Navajo were the only tribe that made and used a saddle that was strikingly unique. Other tribes made simple rawhide covered trees of a mostly generic design except for the women’s saddles of the Crow, Sioux and Blackfoot in the northern plains. The Navajo tree evolved over time but was inspired by the early Spanish saddles appearing in the Navajo lands in the 1600s-1700s. Later they were simplified along the style of Anglo saddles used by mountain men arriving in the Southwest during the early 1800s. Much of the leather used by the Navajo in saddle building was recycled from old, damaged Anglo saddles. Not at all uncommon to see cowboy saddle fenders on an old Navajo saddle. The sling seat, cushioning detail was common on several styles of American saddles in use during the 1700s well into the 1900s. The rigging is a simple variation on the Sam-Stagg rigging that became very popular on Western saddles starting about the time of the Civil War. Brass tacking is a common detail on all Navajo saddles. Navajo horsemen were till using these saddles up until WWII. A truly handsome saddle and beautiful relic of the early Navajo equine culture.

This is very cool — amazing information and a fascinating saddle!
When I saw the picture, I almost asked whether it might be a Spanish saddle, but since you’re in the US I assumed that would be a silly question and just quietly followed the thread.

It’s fascinating to see that I wasn’t too far off and to learn how this design evolved. Congratulations on owning such a fantastic piece of history!

I’d also be really interested to know what kind of horses these saddles were typically used on, build-wise. I’m asking because western saddles were originally built for rather overbuilt horses, while Spanish saddles, as far as I know, were meant for shorter-backed horses with a straighter top-line and more of compact-upright movement.

[chuck123wapati]

53 minutes ago, Tove09Tilda said:

This is very cool — amazing information and a fascinating saddle!
When I saw the picture, I almost asked whether it might be a Spanish saddle, but since you’re in the US I assumed that would be a silly question and just quietly followed the thread.

It’s fascinating to see that I wasn’t too far off and to learn how this design evolved. Congratulations on owning such a fantastic piece of history!

I’d also be really interested to know what kind of horses these saddles were typically used on, build-wise. I’m asking because western saddles were originally built for rather overbuilt horses, while Spanish saddles, as far as I know, were meant for shorter-backed horses with a straighter top-line and more of compact-upright movement.

The Spanish conquistadores introduced horses into North America they then became wild horses that the natives Americans caught and utilized.. You can Google them to see pictures. They roam free here in Wyoming, but are an invasive species and do a lot of damage to the winter ranges of the native animals.

[Tove09Tilda]

2 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

The Spanish conquistadores introduced horses into North America they then became wild horses that the natives Americans caught and utilized.. You can Google them to see pictures. They roam free here in Wyoming, but are an invasive species and do a lot of damage to the winter ranges of the native animals.

Oh, I’m aware of that part — the introduction of horses by the Spanish and also the British, and their later spread is something we cover in Europe, not only in history but even in English classes. We’re taught fairly early on how the Americas were colonised, at least in Germany and Sweden. 😉

My question was more specific: I was wondering whether there were particular horse types or bloodlines preferred by the tribes using these saddles, or if certain mustang families were more commonly used. For example, horses with stronger Spanish-type influence versus those with more later Anglo-American breeding.

I’ve read that some feral herds even show traces of European cavalry bloodlines, including breeds like Trakehners, which I find fascinating given their original use as military horses. I’m curious how that might have influenced saddle design and fit.

[BlackDragon]

34 minutes ago, Tove09Tilda said:

 

Oh, I’m aware of that part — the introduction of horses by the Spanish and also the British, and their later spread is something we cover in Europe, not only in history but even in English classes. We’re taught fairly early on how the Americas were colonised, at least in Germany and Sweden. 😉

My question was more specific: I was wondering whether there were particular horse types or bloodlines preferred by the tribes using these saddles, or if certain mustang families were more commonly used. For example, horses with stronger Spanish-type influence versus those with more later Anglo-American breeding.

I’ve read that some feral herds even show traces of European cavalry bloodlines, including breeds like Trakehners, which I find fascinating given their original use as military horses. I’m curious how that might have influenced saddle design and fit.

Typically they used the Spanish mustangs but later on would trade horses. So they may of had a few different types, plus they would cross breed their mustangs.

The Spanish mustangs has Barb and early Andalusian, think of a Spanish war horse. Today's American mustang has very little Spanish and a lot more European blood lines, it's closer to a Quarter horse.

[chuck123wapati]

2 hours ago, Tove09Tilda said:

 

Oh, I’m aware of that part — the introduction of horses by the Spanish and also the British, and their later spread is something we cover in Europe, not only in history but even in English classes. We’re taught fairly early on how the Americas were colonised, at least in Germany and Sweden. 😉

My question was more specific: I was wondering whether there were particular horse types or bloodlines preferred by the tribes using these saddles, or if certain mustang families were more commonly used. For example, horses with stronger Spanish-type influence versus those with more later Anglo-American breeding.

I’ve read that some feral herds even show traces of European cavalry bloodlines, including breeds like Trakehners, which I find fascinating given their original use as military horses. I’m curious how that might have influenced saddle design and fit.

It was also dependent on location; the southern and plains tribes utilized Spanish horses first because the Spanish were in the South and West for 200 years before English folks came west. I'm sure the native Americans in the east had predominantly English bloodlines, then the trading and mixing began, the Plains tribes had huge herds of horses that they traded and sold from what i have read.