Attention Knife makers

[WaG35]

I am hoping to hear from the knife makers in the group on this one. i have decided that I would like to make a couple of knives to use in my leather working. A head knife and maybe a couple of smaller trim type knives. i am not looking to get into this to make money, I just like to do stuff for myself. My first question is on stock thickness. Would 3/32 be suitable for say a 3" head knife? Also what kind of an edge would be suitable, a chisel grind or a flat grind? I was thinking around 20 degrees for the edge, and see how that works. I am not doing this because it is cheaper, because I am sure by the time I get a usable knife, I could have bought a couple of knives. But I couldn't say that I did it myself. I am planning on using ATS-34 or 440C, primarily because that is what I have found that comes in big enough pieces that I can do a 3" knife with a full tang. Actually for about $30 I can get a piece big enough to do 2 or 3 blanks that hopefully will yield at least 1 usable knife. I plan on doing the grinding myself and sending them off to be heat treated. Texas Knife will heat treat for $5.50 a blade, for that price, it is worth it to have it done right. Besides the fact that I don't have any of the equipment or knowledge to do it. I took a metalurgy class in college but that was about 15 years ago. I hope I am not stepping on any toes by asking these questions, and I guess I will know if I don't get any responses, but the knife making crowd seems to be pretty helpful and willing to share info. There just isn't a lot of info for making these types of knives. Thanks- Tony

[patricweill]

I would not recommend using stainless steel as you will have more problem keeping your blade sharp and honing to the level you want for a head knife; I think you should use carbon steel for cutting tools with maybe .65 to .85C be carefull of the heat tratment which is very very important

20 ° seems to be too thick you will want a full grind at least at the beginning.

I think more knowledgeable guys will answer you with more precision

good luck and post pictures

Patrick

[ferret]

Hi Tony. If you go to the pslac website and download july 96 rawhide gazette there's an article on making head knives from old cirular saw blades. I tried it and it works. Can't tell you what the best angle is, I just guessed and got lucky, I tempered the edge with a blowlamp and that seems to work, it holds an edge well and I can skive 1oz goat with it. think it cost me around £1 ($1.40) and a days work.

Edited January 21, 2009 by ferret

[Rayban]

As for thickness, why not see what current production knives are?

[moon]

The only thing that I would add is I think the flat grind would be best for what you are wanting to do.

[jman]

I do leatherwork and have made a few knives. Personally I will stay away from stainless an go with carbon steel like O-1 or 5160. A flat grind gives me more knife control when using it

[electrathon]

I have made a few round knives. I made them out of old hand saw blades. They are thin, varring on what you find. Very good steel usually. If you are carefull when you cut them out you will not hurt the temper and will not need to reharden them. If the blase is thin enough, you will not need to worry about what way to grind them, just sharpen the edge and you are done.

[WaG35]

Thanks for the repplies, I agree that carbon would probably be better, but I haven't been able to find anyone that sell cabon steel in pieces big enough of thin enough for what I want.

[Blake]

Thanks for the repplies, I agree that carbon would probably be better, but I haven't been able to find anyone that sell cabon steel in pieces big enough of thin enough for what I want.

try Sheffield Steel in DeLand Florida. Knife making supplies.

Blake

[ct701996]

I made a head Knife out of an old cross cut saw blade it seems to hold and edge very good. IT was extremely hard to drill the holes in the handle though.

[logem]

I make knives. I don't see why you couldn't use an exotic stainless like ATS-34. When properly heat treated, it should hold an edge longer than most carbon steels. Rather than ATS-34 you should use 154 CM which is the American equivalent of ATS-34.

Better yet, is CPM 154 CM. Here is a description from the Crucible Steel spec sheet:

Crucible 154 CM is a modification of 440C martensitic stainless steel to which molybdenum has been added. 154 CM has better corrosion resistance, better wear resistance and better hot-hardness than 440C. For knifemakers, it offers better edge retention than 440C. It also has higher attainable hardness and better through hardening characteristics than 440C.

And even better than that is CPM S30V. It is very difficult to grind and polish after it has been heat treated, so most work must be done prior to heat treating. Here is a summary from its spec sheet:

CPM S30V is a martensitic stainless steel designed to offer the best combination of toughness, wear resistance and corrosion resistance. Its chemistry has been specially balanced to promote the formation of vanadium carbides which are harder and more effective than chromium carbides in providing wear resistance. CPM S30V offers substantial improvement in toughness over other high hardness steels such as 440C and D2, and its corrosion resistance is equal to or better than 440C in various environments.

These steels can be purchased from Admiral Steel. A direct link to their price list is HERE.

Take care,

Mike L

[TwinOaks]

Re: Using circular saw blades- A lot of circular saw blades are made from L6 steel, which is easy enough to work and harden, but it rusts very easily. Keep this in mind for leather use. For practice, yes, it's great, you can lay out patterns and such, but it's not for finished blades.

[Pelallito]

Hi,

I agree with Logem that a good stainless would work well, but at the price Admiral wants for 1/16th by 6" , you better have a use for all of the unused material.

I bought a piece of 4 by 1/116th by 18" O1 for about $18 and so far have made a head/round knife out of it and will probably make three more knives, ;ike the ones shown in Stohlmans book to have a matching leather knife collection.

YYou can get O1 in any company that sells precision tools.

Good luck.

Regards,

Fred

[RandyScott]

I bought two older CSO head knives via EBay for less than $35 each including shipping. The steel is good, my favorite has that nice grey patina and the other has some pitting to clean up but no big deal.. certainly a lot easier than cutting a pattern out of O1 steel. The nice one is .005 thick at the tang and .003 thick a quarter inch in from the blade edge. The other is .007 thick at the tang and also .003 thick a quarter inch from the tang. I sharpen at 5 degrees per side, then hone and strop. They will shave your fingerprint ridges off. For anyone who decides to purchase via EBay, I suggest watching the bids and the items till something comes along that you like. For me, the more photos of the item the more assured I was of the item. Sometimes you can just get lucky on an item.

Now just to put my comments in perspective, I make a few knives also.. and I took the easy way.

[Art]

Hi Randy,

Check your caliper, did you mean .030", .050", and .070"?

Art

I bought two older CSO head knives via EBay for less than $35 each including shipping. The steel is good, my favorite has that nice grey patina and the other has some pitting to clean up but no big deal.. certainly a lot easier than cutting a pattern out of O1 steel. The nice one is .005 thick at the tang and .003 thick a quarter inch in from the blade edge. The other is .007 thick at the tang and also .003 thick a quarter inch from the tang. I sharpen at 5 degrees per side, then hone and strop. They will shave your fingerprint ridges off. For anyone who decides to purchase via EBay, I suggest watching the bids and the items till something comes along that you like. For me, the more photos of the item the more assured I was of the item. Sometimes you can just get lucky on an item.

Now just to put my comments in perspective, I make a few knives also.. and I took the easy way.

[RandyScott]

Art,

Thanks... yes that is what I SHOULD have said... I was trying to keep an eye on my 2 year old grandson, measure the round knife and type at the same time.

Randy

[Art]

Hi Randy,

Been there,

Done that,

Got scars to prove it, burns too.

Art

Art,

Thanks... yes that is what I SHOULD have said... I was trying to keep an eye on my 2 year old grandson, measure the round knife and type at the same time.

Randy

[hoosier122]

Thanks for the repplies, I agree that carbon would probably be better, but I haven't been able to find anyone that sell cabon steel in pieces big enough of thin enough for what I want.

Old rusty metal files make great knife steel for forging.