stropping

[Gawa]

do you need to stropping your ceramic and ruby tip swivel knifes

[TroyWest]

Yes, when it gets to feeling a little drag, strop it.

[King's X]

I don't mean to trump a master like Mr. Troy, but I have used cermanics for quite some time (short compared to Mr. Troy) but I actually found that you need to work on the C. blades when you buy them. In fact, case in point, we went through a "dry run" on Oak leaves in preparation for an upcoming class through our guild. One of our members had just bought a C. Blade and he had a really hard time cutting through his leather 1/2 back. Today, at our O.F.C. meeting this morning, ScissorMedic showed up and actually worked on the C. Blade for this member and when he went and cut the leather....he went almost all the way through the letter. Now, ScissorMedic says that he cannot actually sharpen the C. Blade, but he works off the grinding marks and gets it polished.

I hope this helps.

Greetings from Round Rock, Texas

~ Remember: Stop & Strop! ~

[TroyWest]

I don't feel you trumped me ATX, but it certainly doesn't mean I'm infallible. No one is. She didn't ask if it needed to be sharpened. She asked if it needed to be stropped. If it needs to be sharpened, that's a different ball game.

I used a ceramic blade for several years, when one day while cutting, the back corner broke right off. I went back to using a metal blade, but I really liked the ceramic. It was really smooth.Then one day it occurred to me that they have to sharpen those things before they ship them. It must be possible to sharpen them. So I took it to my grinder and ground it down. Then I put it on my GRS power hone with diamond impregnated wheels. These are made for sharpening silver engraving tools. It works fine on ceramic too. It sharpened the blade quite well. I sharpen all my swivel knife blades on it now.

I used that blade for some time until I just decided to use my Henley knife and blade. Sharpening it the same way I couldn't tell the difference between it and the ceramic. It is a great blade.

Last fall at Wichita Falls I tried out one of Pablos knives from Leather Wranglers. I expected not to be impressed at all but was pleasantly surprised. It is a great knife and blade and has become my personal favorite. So much so that I recently ordered a thin blade to go in my Old Smoothie from him as well.

The fact is that I dont know of a swivel knife blade that doesn't need to be stopped from time to time, including ceramic. I have never used a ruby blade, but I'm guessing it would need to be stropped also. That's my $.02.

Have a great day,

Troy West

[whinewine]

I have never used a ruby blade, but I'm guessing it would need to be stropped also.

Ruby is the second hardest natural substance on earth. It can be sharpened and/or stropped by using diamond, if necessary. I have several ruby angle blades & I've never found it necessary to sharpen or strop the ones I have (although many I see on ebay are in pretty poor condition- chipped, cracked, etc, so a regrinding would be necessary). I don't know if an aluminum oxide based stropping compound would work for stropping them: what I do know is that in cutting or polishing sapphire/ruby gemstones, one uses diamond compounds.

Edited February 1, 2009 by whinewine

[TroyWest]

If they are as good as you say they are, I wonder why they aren't being made anymore?

Who originally made them?

Why did they stop?

or, is anybody making them now?

The only ones I have seen were angled blades, which I don't care for.

Did they make a straight blade?

[MADMAX22]

If they are as good as you say they are, I wonder why they aren't being made anymore?

Who originally made them?

Why did they stop?

or, is anybody making them now?

The only ones I have seen were angled blades, which I don't care for.

Did they make a straight blade?

I think mainly it was price. The cost of them were more then what they could easily get.

On the other note my ceramique blade that I got new had alot of marks from the factory and didnt cut very well at all so I took to sharpening it and stropped it and now all is great. The thing is a very nice edge on it.

[whinewine]

If they are as good as you say they are, I wonder why they aren't being made anymore?

Who originally made them?

Why did they stop?

or, is anybody making them now?

The only ones I have seen were angled blades, which I don't care for.

Did they make a straight blade?

They are genuine ruby, but they were lab grown, rather than nature grown.

I would speculate that they aren't made anymore because of the labor and time involved. they consist of a thin slice of ruby faceted to an exact angle & then that thin wedge is fastened (epoxied?) to a brass-colored fitting. The alignment needs to be exact with the brass colored setting, unlike a ceramic blade, which can be cast/machined as a single unit. I've also heard that the ruby can separate from the fitting, although I've never seen that happen personally. If it would happen, I'm sure one who is skilled with faceting could make the re-alignment & epoxy it back to specs. While they are very hard, they are also brittle & can be chipped easily because of their small configuration & size (look at the ruby blades that come up on ebay- the majority are in very poor shape, with cracks/chips evident on a closeup). Bottom line: if treated properly, they will last, just like a ceramic. I just happen to like mine, & I dislike every ceramic that I've tried because of the drag. If I had a choice between a good steel alloy blade (like a Henley) & a ceramic, I'd pick a steel one every time.

I originally paid about $30 for my first ruby blade back in the '70s... adjusted for 2009 dollars, what would that be today? $60? $70? Would anyone pay that for a ceramic blade that will chip as easily? I seriously doubt that.

Yes, straight blades were made. There is one right now on ebay [unless it just ended- type in 'ruby blade'].

[TroyWest]

Thanks for the information. Apparently, that blade was gone when I got to ebay.

If you should run across another, I'd like to try one.

Thanks,

Troy West

[hidepounder]

Troy,

I've used the ruby blades years ago until I learned to sharpen my steel blades. I don't think they offer any advantage at all. If you were able to improve them with your GRS sharpener, maybe they'd be okay. In my opinion, they were inferior, right out of the package.

Bob

[Big Papa Leather]

To add to what ATX was saying on the ceramic blades, I use an aluminum oxide disc to remove the grind, machine marks on the ceramic blades. It is a motorized unit so it makes a very tedious job easier. As far as sharpening the ceramics, it can be done and it is possible with the aluminum oxide, however it is a very hard process as the aluminum oxide disc wears extremely quick. I have a limited number of diamond disc that will do the job quickly but it is not very cost effective. In order to "sharpen" or to change the angle of the ceramic blade is tough. I prefer to call the work I did for the guild members and thier ceramic blades is "hone". I followed the existing angle and focused only on removing the machining marks. This allows the blades to glide through the leather with little effort.

Allen

[tonyc1]

Troy,

I've used the ruby blades years ago until I learned to sharpen my steel blades. I don't think they offer any advantage at all. If you were able to improve them with your GRS sharpener, maybe they'd be okay. In my opinion, they were inferior, right out of the package.

Bob

What is a GRS sharpener?

Tony.

[TroyWest]

What is a GRS sharpener?

Tony.

grstools.com is the web site. I'd do a link but I'm too illiterate.

Click on sharpening and then power hone

It's called a power hone. Works like a small record player . Costs about $380.00 for the hone, about $90.00 per diamond disc in 300, 600, and 1200 grit and the stand which holds your bits for another $100.00. It's too pricey to purchase for sharpening swivel knife blades, but, if you already have one, it's handy for sharpening them, and I can change the angles on the blades to whatever I want.

[TroyWest]

Troy,

I've used the ruby blades years ago until I learned to sharpen my steel blades. I don't think they offer any advantage at all. If you were able to improve them with your GRS sharpener, maybe they'd be okay. In my opinion, they were inferior, right out of the package.

Bob

Well, that's good to know Bob. I'm quite happy with the steel blades I'm using. Your the first person to say anything negative about the ruby blades so it had my curiosity up, and I'm pretty sure I could sharpen a dull one on these diamond wheels.

[TroyWest]

To add to what ATX was saying on the ceramic blades, I use an aluminum oxide disc to remove the grind, machine marks on the ceramic blades. It is a motorized unit so it makes a very tedious job easier. As far as sharpening the ceramics, it can be done and it is possible with the aluminum oxide, however it is a very hard process as the aluminum oxide disc wears extremely quick. I have a limited number of diamond disc that will do the job quickly but it is not very cost effective. In order to "sharpen" or to change the angle of the ceramic blade is tough. I prefer to call the work I did for the guild members and thier ceramic blades is "hone". I followed the existing angle and focused only on removing the machining marks. This allows the blades to glide through the leather with little effort.

Allen

I understand what your saying Allen. My brother traded for some tools once and got a snuff can full of swivel knife blades. One of them was the ceramic blade. We had it for several years until I decided to try it out. I dont remember it having those marks so whoever had it before me had already removed them.

[Stan]

Caution Re Ruby blades: I know of several that have "popped" off and been lost, with the base looking very lonely. I think what is happening is the glue is starting to fail with age. When one considers the collector value and how really good the new steels are, I'd be careful using a ruby blade. Stan

[Billy P]

I have a 1979-1980 Tandy catalog and the Ruby Blades are listed in it. 1/4 in. angle or straight $5.95 + shipping. Billy P

[whinewine]

I have a 1979-1980 Tandy catalog and the Ruby Blades are listed in it. 1/4 in. angle or straight $5.95 + shipping. Billy P

Amazing how the mind slips over time (y'know, the 'good old days' scenario, where we remember stuff that never happened, like "when I was a kid we walked 8 miles to school all year round, every day, up hill, both ways, in blinding snowstorms..." ??.).

I thought I paid around $30 for my ruby then... Oh well... Just in curiousity, Billy, what were the prices of the standard blades then?

russ

[DaveT]

I tried the ruby blades too, along with the sapphire blade (Blue stone) that Tandy sold. As I recall, Ruby is actually a particular type of Sapphire, if I can trust my jewelery store manager brother-in-law. (Yes, it makes Christmas shopping for my wife really easy) The problem with most of the Ruby blades is the glue failing and the stone falling off. A ceramic blade is about as hard, and doesn't require sharpening as often. Yes, it should be stropped, same as steel, to remove the build up of the chemicals from the leather. (I've heard them called sugars? It is sticky after cutting a while.)

I've resharpened ceramic blades that were damaged using a dremel tool with a thin cut off wheel. Held the blade against the flat side of the wheel like a grinder. Then a final polish on 1500 grit wet/dry sandpaper, and stropping on white rouge. Worked pretty well and salvaged a blade. Which I then sold, since I prefer the Henley knives and steel blades. The only real advantage to a ceramic blade is hardness, and that means no sharpening under normal use. If you are comfortable sharpening a knife, then you can actually get steel sharper than the ceramic. If ceramic were really the best, I'm pretty sure Bob Beard would be selling them. <grin>

Not trying to stir the pot, just my opinion.

Dave T.

[Billy P]

Hey Russ, I looked at the price list for the swivel blades they ranged from 1.25 up to 1.95 for the hair blades. The 1/4 filigree blades were 1.75 and the 1/4 angle blade was 1.50 back then. They had a Harley wing buckel for 4.95 and it was the real Harley endorsed one at that. Just a few things from yesteryear, that I/we all wish could be found again. Later Billy P.

[hidepounder]

I agree with you Dave, steel is still the best, in my humble opinion! I think a lot of people gravitate to the RubyAt and ceramic blades because they haven't developed the skills to sharpen steel properly. I know I certainly went through that phase as well! Once I learned to sharpen my steel blades, I discovered I preferred them. That said, it's still important to buy a quality steel blade. I use Henleys and Bob Beards...so far they are the best I've found. I have not tried Pauls (Leather Wranglers) blades yet, however, I understand they are very good. Troy likes them, and that's quite an endorsement! I know Paul has certainly done a ton of research to determine the best steel to use for swivel knife blades. The important thing is to aquire the tools and skills necessary to sharpen your blades properly...your tooling will improve immediately!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Bob