12 Plait Tips

[entiendo]

Well for the first time ever I'm doing a 12 plait..Oh my, this is nothing like 4 or 8 plait. I thought I was doing great at first because the front look lovely but I turned it over and I was wrong. I have the pattern down, 2 over, 2 under, 2 over. But half the braid is around the core and I can't see it, what a mess. And figuring out what string to tighten is a bit tricky too. I finally pulled the braid off the clamp, I'm going to try and do it in hand so I can see what's going on.

Anywho I'd love any tips you master braiders might have...

[Hedge]

Well for the first time ever I'm doing a 12 plait..Oh my, this is nothing like 4 or 8 plait. I thought I was doing great at first because the front look lovely but I turned it over and I was wrong. I have the pattern down, 2 over, 2 under, 2 over. But half the braid is around the core and I can't see it, what a mess. And figuring out what string to tighten is a bit tricky too. I finally pulled the braid off the clamp, I'm going to try and do it in hand so I can see what's going on.

Anywho I'd love any tips you master braiders might have...

It's all practice, practice, practice. You'll get the feel for it, eventually.

If, by taking off the clamp, you mean you don't have the starting end secured, I think you're going to run into more of a problem. You need a way to get a consistent pull and that clamp will help.

Hedge

[entiendo]

It's all practice, practice, practice. You'll get the feel for it, eventually.

If, by taking off the clamp, you mean you don't have the starting end secured, I think you're going to run into more of a problem. You need a way to get a consistent pull and that clamp will help.

Hedge

Oh no, I do have the ends secured to the piece but I don't have the piece secured (it's a quirt), so I don't have the quirt secured to anything. With 4 and 8 plait I clamp a board down on the plaiting so I can pull it tight, but that technique didn't work for me with the 12. I couldn't see under the piece. Maybe once I have a better feel for it I'll be able to clamp the piece down again. I'm just not sure what string to grab without really looking.

[Hedge]

Oh no, I do have the ends secured to the piece but I don't have the piece secured (it's a quirt), so I don't have the quirt secured to anything. With 4 and 8 plait I clamp a board down on the plaiting so I can pull it tight, but that technique didn't work for me with the 12. I couldn't see under the piece. Maybe once I have a better feel for it I'll be able to clamp the piece down again. I'm just not sure what string to grab without really looking.

Ah, I see. Then I'd suggest tying piece of latigo to the quirt and then to something secure. That way, you can twist the quirt to see how the braiding is coming along.

[HorsehairBraider]

I agree with Hedge about a hook or something, so that you can twist and see underneath.

As far as which string to pull... you need to be able to braid all the strings at the same tightness. The way that works best for me is not to pull one string, but to develop a "tension" in my hands. I just kept on braiding, and sooner or later, your hands will start to do it evenly.

When I do some of these multiple string braids I don't need to see the back. I just do it the "same" and it always turns out right. But that will not happen over night. So you see, I also agree with Hedge's first point - practice, practice, practice. It's like learning to write. I bet it took you longer than two or three tries to get good at writing.

[entiendo]

Ah, I see. Then I'd suggest tying piece of latigo to the quirt and then to something secure. That way, you can twist the quirt to see how the braiding is coming along.

Now I'm feeling a little silly...dah...

My fingers are so tired trying to keep it tight and it still doesn't look all that great.

[entiendo]

Thanks Horsehairbraider...But my 4, 6, and 8 plait started out pretty darn nice...

[rawhide1]

entiendo

I agree with everything Hedge and Horsehairbraider said.

But I use a little vice to hold one end of my work with. And sometimes the braid doesn't look the best on the back. But after you roll it when your done it always seems to look a whole lot better. Just my .02

Mike

[Alan Bell]

You can also go U2, O2, U2 on a 12 strand and that way you are only pulling over 2 strands and maybe it will help it lay a little nicer. I reach under the top two (or 3 or 4 or whatever) on each side as I go and it helps me keep the pattern correct. So I would split between the top 2 and the next two and reach between and around and grab the top string on the opposite side and pull it through. Then 2/3 of the job is done because you will already have an under and over done so you just have to go over the final two. This makes it easier to eventually not feel the need to look at the backside.

Vaya con Dios, Alan

[entiendo]

Thanks Alan...I'll try that. I had to pull about half out. I didn't like the looks of it at all. Thank goodness I don't do rawhide! I rolled it and tried everything...I hope my math isn't wrong! That would be terrible!!! I *think* or rather *hope* I was pulling it to low and didn't get good coverage.

I'm going to go give it another try right now...and I think next time I'll just cut my strings a bit thinker for an 8 plait...

[Spence]

I agree about keeping tension with both hands while braiding. In-hand braiding of any more than 4 strands is not recommended. No matter how many strands I'm using, I'm only tightening the strand I am working with at that particular time. You'll find your work will go faster and finer.

Make sure your core is of a proper diameter to support that many strands.

And, as stated before, practice, practice, practice. I've been braiding rope and leather for 50 years and that still holds true.

g'luck

[entiendo]

I think I'm going to have to abandon this quirt. I should be able to salvage the string. I think I did the math wrong because now that it's rolled it's just not right. I have core showing through.

What do you all use for the math on the 12 plait, is it different from the 8? Do you all cut the strings just a hair larger?

Thanks a lot everyone..I'm trying very hard to keep all the strings pretty tense. I think I'm going to have to give it a rest though because my hands are weak and done.

[HorsehairBraider]

Entiendo... even though braiding is "work", it shouldn't be hard. Your hands should not give out on you. You've got to be able to do it all day, so if your hands are getting too tired, you are trying too hard. As you braid, try and relax. Try and think of it as fun. It should be natural.

I had to have this same discussion with my farrier. He wants to braid, but tries too hard and his hands hurt. You must learn to relax, otherwise you won't be able to do a day's work.

On the math question, I'm not much help as I am an official Math Moron. I just use my experience, and as I braid, if I see something is not working out, why, I stop and change things. That is just normal. Don't worry if you have to change; as Ray Hunt says, you have to adjust to fit the situation.

[entiendo]

Your absolutely right Horsehairbraider, 4,6,and 8 plait come natural. I could do it all day but this 12 plait is another matter.

The core and the string are still good, they just can't go together..LOL Still a good thing I don't use rawhide and I don't think I'm ready to even try it yet...

The total diameter of the core at it's widest point was a hair short of 1 3/4"

I divided that by 12 and got 7/48 I rounded it down to 6/48 and got 1/8, so with my math my strings should have been a hair (1/48) larger than 1/8" for a 12 plait.

[Hedge]

Your absolutely right Horsehairbraider, 4,6,and 8 plait come natural. I could do it all day but this 12 plait is another matter.

The core and the string are still good, they just can't go together..LOL Still a good thing I don't use rawhide and I don't think I'm ready to even try it yet...

The total diameter of the core at it's widest point was a hair short of 1 3/4"

I divided that by 12 and got 7/48 I rounded it down to 6/48 and got 1/8, so with my math my strings should have been a hair (1/48) larger than 1/8" for a 12 plait.

I wouldn't have rounded down, entiendo. Your strings are going to stretch a tad as you braid.

Horsehairbraider had good advice...don't pull too hard. You just need to set your lays firmly.

Just had a thought...when I first started braiding, I had a tendency to pull towards me when I tightend my strings. That left gaps. Could that be what's happening on your quirt?

Hedge

[entiendo]

I wouldn't have rounded down, entiendo. Your strings are going to stretch a tad as you braid.

Horsehairbraider had good advice...don't pull too hard. You just need to set your lays firmly.

Just had a thought...when I first started braiding, I had a tendency to pull towards me when I tightend my strings. That left gaps. Could that be what's happening on your quirt?

Hedge

That's what thought too Hedge, that's why I took out half of it at first. I think the strings stretching are contributing to the problem. And I didn't round down, I still cut it a tad larger than 1/8" and remember the diameter was a hair less than 1 3/4" so I had some play there too.

[Alan Bell]

This may or may not make you very happy but.... there is an angle for the width of the strings and the circumference of core you are braiding and at that special angle the length of the strings showing on each "over" section will be the same all the way around your project. If your strings are showing more on one side that the other you will create gaps on the other side and your string width may be correct but you will still create gaps by braiding at the wrong angle. The angle is also affected by the number of times around or "bites" you have. Try looking at that factor as you braid. Experience will tell.

Vaya con Dios, Alan Bell

[entiendo]

Much more to the 12 plait than I thought. That makes sense Alan, the same could happen to an 8 plait. I'm going to practice before I take on that quirt again. I'm also trying to put that string to use, 8 of those strings are now a browband. LOL

[entiendo]

I'm bringing this thread back up because I'm 12 plaiting and it looks GREAT! I'm super slow though! Partly because I'm just starting but mostly because I have this wicked fid stab on my thumb! I got myself pretty good a few days ago, hate it when that happens. Anywho, thank Alan because I've been going u2, o2, u2, that works so much better for me!