Leather sewing machine for holsters

[10mm]

I have been making leather holsters for quite a while now and have decided to purchase a sewing machine. Hand stitching gets old pretty quick. I have been told that I will need a cylinder arm machine rather than a flat bed machine. Is this true and if so, why? I will be sewing two pieces of 8 ounce leather together. I have looked at the Tippmann Boss and while it's in my price range, for a little more I can get a new, powered machine. I would really like to find a used machine at a reasonable price that would suffice for now and perhaps purchase something like an Artisan Toro 3000 at a later date. What machine(s) would you recommend? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Art]

Nothing in this world is necessary except for something similar to a stick and a rock. That being said, a cylinder arm machine will make it much easier to sew close to pockets or bulges in your work, like the bulge caused by something (firearm maybe) occupying the aforementioned holster or pocket. Also, the 441 based machines (which are cylinder arm) have various needle plates and feet available for sewing different things like holsters and bags and things.

Not all cylinder arm machines have the variety of plates available that the 441 and it's clones do.

Art

I have been making leather holsters for quite a while now and have decided to purchase a sewing machine. Hand stitching gets old pretty quick. I have been told that I will need a cylinder arm machine rather than a flat bed machine. Is this true and if so, why? I will be sewing two pieces of 8 ounce leather together. I have looked at the Tippmann Boss and while it's in my price range, for a little more I can get a new, powered machine. I would really like to find a used machine at a reasonable price that would suffice for now and perhaps purchase something like an Artisan Toro 3000 at a later date. What machine(s) would you recommend? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Handstitched]

G'Day ,

Just reading some of the posts on this web site, a lot of people don't seem to be very happy with Tippman (?)

However, there seems to be a LOT of praise for the Artisan machines, and similar clones, for versatility, great after sales service etc.

I can vouch for that too, my machine (441 clone) comes from Queensland ,Australia and my after sales & service dude has always been very helpful even when I ask some of the silliest questions.

As for the machine itself, I now have all the adjustments just right for what I do, and its absolutely fantastic and its a joy to use

All the best,

Handstitched

[Cobra Steve]

Hello 10MM, this is Cobra Steve from the Leather Machine Co., Inc. Our new COBRA Class 3 machine is the perfect machine for you. It is actually set up where you are able to sew holsters and many other leather projects. The presser feet have been manufactured not only to sew the holster, but the bullet loops as well. They were well received at the recent leather show in Wickenburg. You can contact me by phone at 1-866-962-9880 or by my cell at 1-909-800-1429. I hope to hear from you soon. Thanks, Steve

[TwinOaks]

Steve,

When are we gonna get to see some pics of the new machines? Not all of us are able to make the trip to Wickenburg and the website is Pic-Free.

It might help sales to see what it is. From what I've heard, it's kind of 'standard' for a 441 clone, but that Cobra changed the needle plate out to facilitate 'grain out on both sides' sewing. I, and I suspect others, hope to see some pics on the new website.

Thanks,

Mike

P.S. Sorry about the slight hijack

Edited March 16, 2009 by TwinOaks

[Cobra Steve]

Mike they are working on the site as we speak. It should be up in a couple of days. Thanks for the time, Steve

[ryano]

Toledo Industrial Sewing machine, Ohio, sells the Cowboy sewing machine line and is by far cheaper on price than any other machine dealer. He also has a lot of used machines, I mean a lot. He also sells needles and thread. He has a toll free number 866-362-7397. I am just a happy customer.

Edited March 16, 2009 by ryano

[millman927]

Hey Steve, are you going to be at the Sheridan show?

[Cobra Steve]

Yes i will be in Sheridan, hope to see you there. Thanks, Steve

[neelsaddlery]

I think we really need to quit pluggung each other's machines here on the forum. This is not the place to do it. We all have our own websites, and you should look at each individual dealer on the merits of price, customer service, customer satisfaction, and quality of accessories and attachments.

Just my two cents worth.

Kindest Regards,

Ryan O. Neel

Neel's Saddlery and Harness

Cowboy Sewing Machines

[DOUBLETAP]

Great info here.....I am quickly discovering new things and I'd like a versatile machine that can do wallets, belts and holsters. Will these machines work good on thin leather for wallets as well? i'd hate to have to buy two machines if the lighter leather is too 'light'.

[Wizcrafts]

Great info here.....I am quickly discovering new things and I'd like a versatile machine that can do wallets, belts and holsters. Will these machines work good on thin leather for wallets as well? i'd hate to have to buy two machines if the lighter leather is too 'light'.

Lol; you just responded to a topic that has been dormant since 2009; six plus years ago. Still, the question is valid. You want to know if a "441 clone" can be used to sew wallets, as well as holsters. As the owner of a Cowboy CB4500 I can tell you that they can, if you make several important adjustments first.

These are huge, heavy duty sewing machines that are built from the ground up to sew harness, holsters, sheaths, saddles and heavy straps, bags and cases. The current crop are able to clear and sew up to 7/8 inch of leather, using a needle the size of a roofing nail. They are normally adjusted to properly tension thread that is a half millimeter in diameter (#277), which usually requires at least 1/4 inch of leather to conceal the knots. The tension, pressure and check springs are extremely heavy duty, which this thickness of thread calls for.

In order to convince a 441 type machine to sew nicely into 4 to 6 ounces of wallet leather takes all of the following changes:

1. Replace the usual #25 system 794 leather point needle with a #19 system 7x3 round point needle, which is the smallest size normally stocked and sold in the US and Canada for 441 machines.
2. Re-thread the top and bobbin with #69 or possibly #92 bonded thread. The 441 machines are normally sold with #277 thread, which is 4 times thicker.
3. Tighten the bobbin tension spring to get some back pressure on the bobbin thread (but not so much that it puckers the bottom leather). A bobbin set for #277 will just let #69 thread flow with zero tension.
4. Back off the top tension to balance the knots inside the leather.
5. If you find it impossible to get the knots to sink below the top, it may be due to how the top thread is fed from the spool to the top tension disks. A direct path through the top post is usually called for with tiny thread, as opposed to the once around with heavier thread.
6. If you still cannot lower the knots into the leather, the check spring tension will need to be backed off. It is normally set to stiff action to maintain tension of heavy thread.
7. After all these adjustments, if the leather on the bottom is fairly soft and gets pushed into the huge hole in the feed dog, or the equally huge cutout in the throat plate, you will need to remove them and replace the throat plate with an optional narrow slotted plate (and no feed dog).
8. The top pressure will need to be backed way off.
9. The amount of alternating height of the feet may need to be reduced
10. The point of impact of the inside foot will have to be reset to equal the tip of the needle at the surface of the thin material. Otherwise, the reverse stitches probably won't match the forward stitches.

Those are the typical changes needed to get a 441 clone to properly sew thin leather. They will need to be reversed to sew thicker leather, with thicker (normal) thread.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Wizcrafts

[Darren Brosowski]

Agree with Ryan.

In general all of the dealers here have a great reputation for customer service and the prices are not that different so it is more an issue of finding the dealer that is closest to you.

All else being equal the closest dealer will be the one to take the machine to in the very unlikely event that things go horribly wrong or simply the closest place to go for instrucrion.

Darren

[DOUBLETAP]

LOL I didn't even think to check the date on it before I posted, but thanks for getting back to me so quickly. Fantastic information, to be honest a bit overwhelming. I don't think I'll need something as big as the 4500...would the same principles/steps apply if I were to get a smaller one, i.e. 3200, 3500..(?). I think the smart thing to do would be to see who and where the 'local' dealer is and make contact to see what machine I need to buy...that 4500 looks beautiful but it's rather big for my workspace and wallet hahaha

I really appreciate y'all...and I will most likely hit you up when I do in fact bite the bullet and buy my machine...it won't be long at all.

[Wizcrafts]

I don't think I'll need something as big as the 4500...would the same principles/steps apply if I were to get a smaller one, i.e. 3200, 3500..(?).

Yes. They are basically the same type of mechanism and design. The 3200 just sews less thickness (1/2") than the 3500 and larger. They all share the enormous throat plate cutout and feed dog. You would probably be better off with a CB341 that Toledo Industrial is just starting to sell. I haven't seen one yet, but he says they are clones of a Juki LS-1341, but less than half the cost of a Juki.