Saddle Seat

[yotebuster1200]

I have done some research so if my question has already been answered please let me know and I would be happy to go and read.

My question is on shaping the saddle set for comfort.

What are some of the factors that makes a saddle comfortable?

For instance I was riding a saddle yesterday and was only in it for about 30 min and I am defiantly sore and was able to feel it after about 15 min. my butt is sore on the bottom where it transitions to my legs. (Sorry for now having a better way to describe that for you) If that didnt make sense please let me know. so if you were told this by a customer what things would you try to do on their saddle to ensure comfort? I really want to be able to build a great saddle that is comfertable to spend a day in and I am know it will take more than just these posts to undertand this all but I know this will help me along the way.

If you would like me to send pictues of the saddle or of anything just let me know.

Thank Scott

[Go2Tex]

Well, the seat comfort is determined by the shape of the groundseat and shape of the tree bars. What you are describing sounds like maybe the seat drops off too sharply at the transition.

[Russ]

Scott;

Saddle Seat comfort is all about the ground seat installation. There's many different ways to create the seat, but they all are looking for the same outcome, which is a nice dish and the proper slope to the cantle. If you were sore back where your legs straddle the saddle, I would suspect that enough of the ground seat wasn't skived off during the build-up. This area needs to be very smooth and very rounded to accommodate the rider. All of this is assuming that the sadddle is the proper size for the rider and the stirrup length is correct.

I would suggest taking a look at Stohlman's volume 2 book or Harry Adams' Saddlemaker's shop manual for some pictures and notes about the groundseat. I know it's really hard to see how much to skive out of the gs from a book. I never really got it until I was in front of a saddle maker in class. Even then, it took until my 5th saddle until he didn't say, "need more out here." )

Nothin' like an uncomfortable seat to teach learn ya about the groundseat tho!

[kseidel]

Shaping a ground seat can be very difficult to learn and you will probably not be satisfied with having an understanding until you have shaped a couple of dozen. For practice, you can replace ground seats in older saddles that are uncomfortable and then ride them to asses your shape.

One of the most common problems is the size of the pocket in the lowest point in the seat front to back. Whether it is close to the cantle or more forward toward the swell is personal preference. However, it must be large enough for the riders seat to fit into without sitting on a slope either in front or behind him. This will affect the overall balance of the rider in the saddle more than any other factor.

The length of the stirrup dictates the shape side to side. If one rides a shorter stirrup, his seat is flatter and can have a "sharper" corner, more like sitting in a chair. Someone who rides with a longer stirrup with his legs straighter down requires a more rounded transition. You find these differences dictated by discipline as well as geographic location.

Best of luck,

Keith

[yotebuster1200]

Russ,

What is the best way to determine the correct size of saddle for a given person. the saddle is a 15 in wade and I am 5'11"

Keith,

Can I shape the ground seat and then go ride or do I need the seat on to determine the correct fit?

I know this will take some trial and error to learn but is there some good resources for learning the best way to understand the way the ground seat should be shaped. What would even be better is knowing why the ground seat is shaped the way it is and why some thing make it more comfortable that others. Or what do you take into consideration when shaping a ground seat. I guess I just learn better when I know why you do something not just how. If I know why you do something and the purpose behind it I can usually figure the rest out a lot easier.

Well thanks again for the help so far a do apreciate it. Keep it comming I am taking notes and eger to learn

Scott

[Russ]

Scott;

The best way to decide on a seat size is to have that person sit in a finished saddle. People who weigh the same or are the same height but have different builds may require a different sized seat. Also, the swells on the tree can make a difference in how much room the rider needs.

15, 15 1/2" seats are pretty common and is a good place to start. If it's your first saddle and you've already got the tree, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Concentrate on the groundseat.

Russ

Russ,

What is the best way to determine the correct size of saddle for a given person. the saddle is a 15 in wade and I am 5'11"

Keith,

Can I shape the ground seat and then go ride or do I need the seat on to determine the correct fit?

I know this will take some trial and error to learn but is there some good resources for learning the best way to understand the way the ground seat should be shaped. What would even be better is knowing why the ground seat is shaped the way it is and why some thing make it more comfortable that others. Or what do you take into consideration when shaping a ground seat. I guess I just learn better when I know why you do something not just how. If I know why you do something and the purpose behind it I can usually figure the rest out a lot easier.

Well thanks again for the help so far a do apreciate it. Keep it comming I am taking notes and eger to learn

Scott

[kseidel]

Russ,

What is the best way to determine the correct size of saddle for a given person. the saddle is a 15 in wade and I am 5'11"

Keith,

Can I shape the ground seat and then go ride or do I need the seat on to determine the correct fit?

I know this will take some trial and error to learn but is there some good resources for learning the best way to understand the way the ground seat should be shaped. What would even be better is knowing why the ground seat is shaped the way it is and why some thing make it more comfortable that others. Or what do you take into consideration when shaping a ground seat. I guess I just learn better when I know why you do something not just how. If I know why you do something and the purpose behind it I can usually figure the rest out a lot easier.

Well thanks again for the help so far a do apreciate it. Keep it comming I am taking notes and eger to learn

Scott

Scott, this is where it can get more complicated. A given seat length in a tree can be shaped to fit both larger and smaller. The required tree length is determined more by the amount of leg room between the swell and the cantle on the side. A wide swell leaned forward and a high cantle leaned back will yield a shorter leg space than the same tree with the swell and cantle stood up straighter. A slick fork has no swell to run your leg into, allowing a bit more variable. You must have enough room for your seat to sit between the swell and cantle in the middle, and enough room for your thigh between the swell and cantle with your leg bent at the desired angle for stirrup length.

As far as seat shape, You can shape a seat to be comfortable for a larger person by making the "pocket" that you sit in longer front to back. If the front rises up too soon the rider will be sitting on a slope and feel tilted back. If the dish of the cantle rises up too soon the rider will be tilted forward. Both have a negative affect on the balance of the rider on the horse. It makes one feel like he is sitting "on" the saddle instead of "in" it.

You can make the pocket longer by keeping it lower farther forward before beginning the rise. The rise can be as high as you like and as steep as you like as long as there is enough room to sit comfortably in the pocket. Carving the dish of the cantle will also allow more room for the butt. Cutting too deep will sit the rider too close to the cantle and he will feel the top edge of the cantle all around his backside. When the horse goes downhill, the rider will get hit hard in the back by the edge of the cantle.

When shaping a seat, remember to shape the sides curved for the thighs, the dish for the butt, and the pocket for the size of the rider. The transitions are the hardest and vary by riding style and personal preference. It is best to start carving in the places that are fixed definates that cannot change. The edges that cannot go deeper than the tree, The deepest part of the pocket over each bar that cannot go deeper than the tree or strainer, the edge of the cantle. When you find these fixed points, it is just a matter of connecting the dots. Sounds simple, but in reality is difficult and time consuming even for master saddle makers.

Hope this is helpful, good luck!

Keith

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

Yote

On our website we have an information article here that tries to explain from a tree maker's standpoint some of the geometry of why the same seat length measurement can give you varying amounts of room between the fork and the cantle along the bar where your leg goes, which we call "thigh length". We have found that the majority of people need between 8 and 10 inches from the front point of the cantle measured horizontally to the back of the fork (in the bare tree).

A lot of saddle makers want to know the rider's thigh circumference in their determination of seat size. Dennis Lane gave us permission to share his starting point. He uses the thigh circumference divided by 3 (close enough to Pi) to get the diameter, then adds an inch. That gives room for the distortion of the thigh on the saddle, leather etc. That gives him a ballpark to start with. Then there are personal preferences in how tight the rider likes to be in the saddle, whether it is a slick fork or swell fork, will have bucking rolls or not, and what the saddle will be used for that also affect how long that distance should be.

Edited March 11, 2009 by Denise