Cementing leather during holster assembly

[Lobo]

Thanks for all the responses, positive and negative. I wish all of you the best life can offer.

There are those who would prefer to attack and antagonize. There are those who would prefer to impose their opinions as the only authority on any subject. All I can say is to review the original title of this post in context with all the garbage that has followed, then you will see what all of this nonsense is about.

The thing that I lack right now is an emoticon that will depict a dog and a fire hydrant. That would express it quite well.

[Rayban]

That image is quite clear in my mind....very classy.

I think another good emoticon for you would be one that represents....."please don't bother to post on my thread unless you agree with me"......

[Tkleather1]

That image is quite clear in my mind....very classy.

I think another good emoticon for you would be one that represents....."please don't bother to post on my thread unless you agree with me"......

LOL!!!!

[1Man]

Hey Lobo, can you post a link to your site so we can take a look at some of your work? I'm curious to see what your stuff looks like. I tried a Googl search but didn't find anything. Thanks.

[BOOMSTICKHolsters]

Lobo, I asked a simple question and offered advice based my own experience. You still haven't acknowledged the concern I brought up, which was whether the glue you used will be a problem in the long run. Instead you made insinuations about my products and my methodologies, and I don't understand why. You also accused me of an "in your face" response. My question was and is completely legitimate, and relevant. I was in no way terse or negative in my first post, and I believe my second post was very civil. You, sir are the one who chose to "attack and antagonize" with your response to my post, and I think you would see that if you looked at this thread objectively.

I would also like to point out that I do not want to impose my opinion about holster construction "as the only authority on any subject". I will share my experience whenever I believe I have something to offer, and I will even tell people why I do things the way I do them. If someone has a different way to do things that proves to be better, I will look into it and change my methodologies if I am able. More than once I have had to change my ideas about holster making when I thought I had a good grasp on things, only to find I have so much more to learn.

In fact, I admit I didn't realize there are differences between Elmer's Glue and Elmer's White Glue until reading this thread. I still don't know whether either or both is water soluble or not, or how long they last after wet forming. You might be able to shed some light on that matter based on your experience, and I would still very much like to hear your thoughts on the jubject in relevance to my original concern. If I am incorrect in my thinking, I will gladly admit it and add one more helpful trick of the trade to my repertoire.

I apologize for offending you with my initial post, although I honestly can't understand why it upset you. If you like, I will refrain from asking questions or commenting on any of your threads in the future. I would, however, like to leave one final piece of advice:

If you came here to learn, you would probably do well to swallow your pride and take any constructive criticism that is offered to you at face value without taking it too personally. If you came here to teach, then I hope you will find a better way to respond to challenging questions than to antagonize the one who asked them. - You made it clear that when you got started, you had no access to the internet or to the advice and guidance of other experienced professional holster makers. You do have those things at your disposal now, and it would be a real shame not to utilize them.

[Denster]

I read this thread with some interest. I’ve wondered for some time about the similarity of Elmer’s Glue-All and Leatherweld. Just was never motivated to experiment. I’ve used Leatherweld exclusively for a couple of years now, having switched from Barge’s to cut down on the set up time and have been very pleased with it. Quick set up and very strong bond. I’ve also used Glue-All for general purpose woodworking when I wanted time to position the pieces and the work would be doweled or screwed. In that application I have no complaints. Just to be clear about what we are talking about here. Glue-All is a white glue but very different from the Elmer’s white glue you get in the school section at Wally-World, that glue only offers a temporary and weak bond adequate for school projects and safe if eaten. Glue-All is a permanent bond glue best for porous materials such as paper, cloth, (leather is porous) and good for semi porous such as wood and pottery. It is sold in the hardware section by the 4oz, pt, qt and gallon, pretty inexpensively I might add. Yellow woodworking glues mentioned in some of the responses are a different animal entirely.

I decided to do a direct comparison between Glue-All and Leatherweld in several areas and these are the results.

Observations: Glue-All and Leatherweld are both the same color and viscosity. As near as I can tell smell the same and taste similar.

Dry time: I smeared a thin layer of both Leatherweld and Glue all on the flesh side of Veg-Tan hide. The Leatherweld dried beyond tack in two minutes the Glue-All beyond tack in just under four minutes.

Bond: I glued several straps of 8oz veg-tan flesh side to flesh side clamped and let dry for ten minutes. I took four of the straps and threw them into a sink full of hot water to soak and proceeded to pull apart a strap glued with Leather weld and a strap glued with Glue-All.

Leatherweld: Separated through the glue line with a strong pull, the bond was more than adequate for sewing and handling.

Glue-All : Separated through the glue line with about the same force required for Leatherweld again adequate for sewing and handling.

I then removed the four straps from the sink, which were by now thoroughly saturated. I put one each of Leatherweld and Glue-All in the convection oven set at 180deg. I then proceeded to pull apart the other two straps from the soak.

Leatherweld: Separated through the glue line with only slightly less force than when dry.

Glue-All: Separated through the glue line with about the same amount of force.

After an hour in the convection oven the two straps had curled and discolored. I removed them and pulled them apart.

Leatherweld: No separation noted on the edges a significant amount of force was required to pull apart and separation was not through the glue line instead leather was pulled from the opposing piece.

Glue-All: No separation of edges and again significant force was required to pull apart and separation was not through glue line but leather pulled from opposing face.

The final test was to glue straps and let dry for several hours.

Leatherweld: Significant force required to separate. Separation was not through glue line rather from leather being pulled from opposing face.

Glue-All: Again significant force required to separate and separation was not through the glue line but from leather pulled from opposing face.

As a matter of curiosity I bonded two pieces together. One of which was glued with Leatherweld and the other with Glue-All. The bond obtained after ten minutes dry time clamped was indistinguishable from those obtained with same type gluing.

It kind of looks to me as if old Lobo might be on to something

[BOOMSTICKHolsters]

That's the kind of information I was looking for in the first place - Thanks Denster. I would like to hear about it if you ave any similar comparisons between Leatherweld and Barge's, or for that matter the Elmer's glue Lobo was using.

It sounds like the Elmer’s Glue-All would hold over time even after being exposed to water, and might be a viable alternative to cement (as long as there is no loss in quality, of course). The faster cure time could be handy for holsters, although I could see it possibly being a detriment when gluing belt blanks.

How easy is it to apply, and does it spread on light or heavy? Does it absorb quickly or just set on the surface of the leather? Since you have been using it for a while, have you found the flexibility of the Leatherweld (after it sets) to be adequate for things like belts that will bend and flex repeatedly, or do you think the bond would crack when the glue has set for weeks? If you're not sure, does the glue act more like rubber or hard plasic once it has dried in open air?

[Denster]

The Elmer's Glue-All is what Lobo was using. The leatherweld dries clear as does the Elmers and is flexible. How thick you put it on determines your working time. Thinly spread you have a couple of minutes. Good for holsters. When I'm doing belts I put down a wetter layer with a foam brush and you have time to do both the belt and the liner. The belt I'm wearing right now is 8oz veg-tan lined with 4oz calfskin. Made it about two years ago and glued up with leatherweld and no problems. No cracking and no separation.

[BOOMSTICKHolsters]

Thanks again, Denster. That is what I wanted to know. I do have one more question regarding both the Leatherweld and the Elmer's Glue-all; how does the glue respond to sanding edges even on your leather projects? Does it ball up, or can you tell it is there at all?

[Denster]

You can't tell it is there at all. I take great care to get the glue clear out to the edge on all surfaces. If you get some squeeze out it can just be wiped off.