Two Questions about Vinagroon

[Des804]

1. Can you use color leather paints on top of it ?

2. How long does it normally take for you to make 1 gallon of the stuff up I put the metal nails in it ( about 2-3 lbs worth ) and its been a week and it seems like now is when its just starting to bubble like crazy.

[TwinOaks]

paints? I dunno. Haven't tried that. I'm thinking acrylics won't stick to it very well because of the tallows pushed to the surface.

brewtime? I let mine brew for a few weeks before using it, but I used steel wool first then threw some nails in after the first month. Just remember to leave the lid loose enough to let gas escape ( or use a valve system).

[Des804]

yeah I have the valve system going. Okie dokie thanks.

[budd4766]

Funny you should ask this...because I'm about to attempt this very thing soon.

I let my vinegar/metal sit about 2 weeks and then strained through a rag twice. I've tested some pieces, letting them soak in the vinagroon for 2 minutes, then rinsing with baking soda/water.

I get a nice black, and it'll "pass", especially after I put Super Sheen on it, but I do notice some of the thicker pieces will start to fade to gray as they dry. I'll try soaking them a little longer next time.

I'll try to post some pics of how my attempt at painting on vinagrooned leather comes out in a few days.

[dbusarow]

Re fading to gray.

Let the pieces dry completely, then give them a good coat or two of oil. The oil really brings out the black. And it's not just acceptable, it's a wonderful black.

Dan

[DG Leather]

1. Can you use color leather paints on top of it ?

2. How long does it normally take for you to make 1 gallon of the stuff up I put the metal nails in it ( about 2-3 lbs worth ) and its been a week and it seems like now is when its just starting to bubble like crazy.

What is vinagroon?

[hidepounder]

Has anyone ever tried using vinegaroon with a brush...applying it like dye in specific areas while leaving other parts natural...like dyeing a background? Does that work?

Bob

[ferret]

Has anyone ever tried using vinegaroon with a brush...applying it like dye in specific areas while leaving other parts natural...like dyeing a background? Does that work?

Bob

Yes but you have to use several coats to get a deep black. This also works if you are using acrylic paints, remeber to put tha paint on first.

Edited April 15, 2009 by ferret

[budd4766]

I'm wondering if I should paint, then dunk the whole thing in the sauce. I've got two pieces to do...could try both ways I guess.

I'll have to do some experimenting...play the mad scientist a little..

[Suze]

What is vinagroon?

It is an "old time" dye for leather made with vinager and some sort of steel --- steel wool (no soap) nails (rusty works better)

the vinager desolves the steel and when you use it on leather it is a very rich black.

Hope that helped - if you search around there have been several threads about it.

[westernblingbling]

It is an "old time" dye for leather made with vinager and some sort of steel --- steel wool (no soap) nails (rusty works better)

the vinager desolves the steel and when you use it on leather it is a very rich black.

Hope that helped - if you search around there have been several threads about it.

Do you think it would work with old rusty horse shoes?

[ChuckBurrows]

rusty works better

Nope not necessarily = it's one of those notations about vinegar blacking (aka VB - technically ferric acetate) that has been passed around as a fact and it's not true. If anything, using rusty iron or steel (either will work) will cause the leather to be less black and more brownish - when using VB on wood (especially nice on curly maple) rusty iron in the mix gives you more red/brown tones.

Here's an original recipe from the 1800's:

VINEGAR BLACK (aka Vinegaroon)

For giving color to the grain of leather there is no blacking that will at all compare with the well known vinegar black. This may be made in various ways. The simplest, and, without doubt, the best, is to procure shavings from an iron turner and cover them with pure cider vinegar; heat up and set aside for a week or two, then heat again and set in a cool place for two weeks; pour off the vinegar, allow it to stand for a few days, and draw off and cork up in bottles. This will keep for a long time, and, while producing a deep black on leather, will not stain the hands.

Notice there is no mention of rusty iron, but he does mention heating the mixture and that helps speed things along. I've also found that cider vinegar works faster. Time wise it can take a two to three weeks to get a good batch - once done I start another one immediately that way it's always on hand. If things slow down and there is still a fair amount of iron left add some more vinegar to give it a kick. If just a little iron strain off and use.

To get the darkest black, do a quick soak of the leather first in a strong black tea mix and while still damp dunk in the VB. The extra tannins will help the color change since this is a chemical reagent not a dye/stain per se and it's the reaction of the VB with the tannic acid that causes the change. Follow up with a quick soak in baking soda (which neutralizes any residual acid, but also helps set the color to black and kills the smell) and then let the excess moisture evaporate, while still damp apply the oil of your choice...............

Edited April 16, 2009 by ChuckBurrows

[Suze]

I stand corrected - I really should not talk about things I only know a little bit about.......

I was under the impression that "rusty nails" worked the best.

sorry

[badger]

Nice one Chuck, thank you for that.

Badger

[Bree]

I have been brewing mine up for about a month and a half maybe 2 months. It consumed the original steel wool and nails. I gave it a recharge with a little more vinegar and several more steel wool pads and it has eaten those too.

It is producing leather that is very black after a 20 or 30 second dunk. Color goes through the entire body of the leather. The longer you dunk it the deeper the effect... to a limit... once all the tannins are reacted with it won't change any further unless you add more tannin like soaking it in black tea or something. That might charge the color up more with another dunking in the 'roon.

Heck I tried it on some Brazilian Imbuya wood which normally has an yellow-olive to walnut brown color. Just putting a couple of drops on the wood and smearing it around blackened it up just like ebony.

Pretty cool stuff. I plan to make a bunch more. Did I say that it pretty darn inexpensive too??

[chrlshrdy]

I just finished up making and aging a batch today. I don't know what it is about the dark spaces in my house, but things brew up and a hyper accelerated rate. My mead was DONE and winning awards after 4 months total, and my vinegar black was totaly ready in 1 week. I used cheap grocery store cider vinegar and 3 pads of 000 steel wool. There was still some debris in the vinegar, but there was no more gas venting. For the piece below (an untreated identical piece is below it for comparison) I brushed it on with a foam brush and then dunked it in the soda solution till it stopped bubbling. I then brushed on a couple of coats on neetsfoot and worked it in really well. There is no sealant on it yet.

Sorry about the quality of the picture, I took it with my camera phone and didn't use the flash.