Saddle and Tack Repair

[ryan]

I just recently read Mr. Brenner's book and I learned a lot! However, he refers a lot to the current market. In my area, I seem to be one of the only leatherworkers around. I believe you would call that a Monopoly. My question is this; I have an upcoming meeting with a guy who just started a tack shop 45 minutes North of me. In speaking with him on the phone, he seems nice and he is well known in this area as being a good businessman. He states that he's been having tons of requests for custom leather gear and repairs and seemed very excited to have some of my stuff on consignment at the shop. That's great, however, I have been having great difficulty coming up with prices for repairs. I would really like to know what you folks charge for the following; saddle cleaning, new stirrup leathers (halves and wholes), relinning skirts, rewrapping horns and other common requests I have missed. I would prefer to have a list for the shop to quote to interested customers and that may help divert some of these $75 Mexican saddles I get in here from time to time. I am not all that fond of doing a lot of repairs as it has been past experience that it's not that profitable, but I may not be charging enough either. Also, are there any concerns or bad experiences anyone has had with this type of relationship? (dealing with local tack shops)

Any info would be appreciated

Ryan

[TracyMoss]

I will PM you one of my price sheets.

[awharness]

I always have the same problem! I never know what to charge for repairs! Sometimes I tell myself "$12 minimuim" then I do a bunch of work for that $12 mini, and the next time they come in I charge them $12 for half the work! How does everyne charge? It doesn't seem fair to charge hourly in some cases because I start in on something then go back to it after glue tacks up, or the phone rings or I get the urge to come on here... So whats the deal with everyone elses repair work pricing?

-Andrew

[Johanna]

I think if you stick to hourly shop rates you are less likely to short yourself and/or confuse your customers. After awhile you will look at a specific job and be able to give a rough estimate time wise.

Johanna

[ryan]

I tend to agree with Johanna in the fact that you should charge hourly. But, I seem to like to work on four different things at once and it's hard to keep track of how much time I have into a project. I know some keep a stop watch and that works for them. I was thinking of getting one of those timers you see people using when they're playing speed chess but I don't know what they are called! But something of that sort with a small notepad would work pretty good I would think.

Ryan

[David Genadek]

Ryan,

I may be a bit more hard core on this than many but in the end it is a business. First thing you need to do is look at your fixed exspenses. How much do you need to make to cover your over head and no one can give you that figure but you. Then ask how much you want to make. A rule a very successful businessman once told me was that if you have a gross profit 2.5 times your labor cost you will have a functional business. Below that you will be hurting above that you will be smileing. That means if you want to make $10.00 an hour then you charge $35.00 ,$15.00 would mean you would charge $45.00,$20.00 would mean $70.00. Your a retail business so you should double your material cost. You shouldn't feel bad about it either because when you go get your car fixed or have to have the plumber come over they will be doing the same to you. It is just what it takes gad from what I can tell the Mayo clinic charges about $900.00 and hour and I have to pay that from what I'm making off my leather work.

A bigger question is often if you really have the professional level skills to get things done fast enough to get it done and still be with in the limits of what the market will bear. You are in a really really cheap market and Minnesotans are tough customers. They all figure they can do it themselves, so let them. Charge what you need to have the life you want and if they won't pay it move on. Although I live in Minnesota I do very little business in this state.

As for the retailers I view them as leaches, us them for fishing but keep them out of your business. If you can charge your normal rates and then let them mark it up as they need to, you will have a workable deal.They really don't offer you anything if you really think about it. If they want your work in their store make them pay for it. Don't build their business at your exspense because they will switch to the next guy so fast it will make your head spin. Retailers are retailers because they want to make fast easy money which is fine but many don't understand that you need to make a living too. With that said I will say I have had some good relationships with retailers over the years but they have been in places like New York, LA ,Santa Fe ,Jackson Hole but not in Minnesota.

David Genadek

[bruce johnson]

Ryan,

Consignment can be a two edged sword. Be careful. They never take as good of care of things in the shop as things they have bought. I have done consignment and wholesale work in the past. On consignment there has to be enough profit for them to stock it, but the other stuff they are buying from "Big Wholesaler" gives them a better margin. Whose work will they push more once the honeymoon is over? I got along best when I shipped them upper end kind of stuff for big events, like the World Show or the NFR shows. Stuff that would appeal to that market and be sold in a week. I scaled back on what I sent for them to beat up and down the road with going to the weekend rodeos and regional horseshows. The same people are going to those events week in and weekout. They had already seen it three times last month. If they were going to buy it, they would have. Shops are worse, because the customer base is usually more limited, and customers may not go to the tackshop every week. If you are rodeoing or horsehowing, the tacktrailers tend to be a social gathering spot, so customers are usually seeing stuff at least a couple times a month.

I price my stuff at materials and labor. Bob's book covers both pretty well. If he is still doing the 10 or 20% materials inventory markup, ignore that factor and do at least 60% (standard in some businesses) or 100%. Your mechanic and plumber sure markup more than 20%. My labor when I was doing a lot of the wholesale/awards stuff was about 2/3 or 3/4 strandard shop rate. I was making it up on volume and economy of labor doing a lot of the same thing at once. Individual custom orders were at shop rate at the end. The good thing was I got to do a lot of different things. I learned a lot, and got my work into the hands of people I never would have otherwise. I also paid some serious bills at a time when I had no other options. Don't let the business get behind on paying you, and it doesn't hurt to know what they have sold. Keep them current. It will help both of you. Currently I am down to one guy taking outside orders. He calls me and tells me what he needs. He pays well, and has never kicked on prices as they have gone up. He mostly wants a one of custom order now. He can make more off the big time wholesaler's stuff. That's fine, and I don't have to try to compete on price with the Weavers.

As far as pricing repairs. Bob's book and Bob's "current market" are geared for Bob's area and Bob's customers. If you look at saddle shop sites on the internet, there are a lot of them that have a published repair price list. They are all over the scale. Some apparently don't want to do any repairs by pricing high, and others want to do all of mine by pricing too low. Big thing is never cheapen the price of a repair because of the value of the item. If it is cheap old $200 saddle and they want to reline it, charge them whatever your rate is. My mechanic doesn't charge any less to repair my Chevy with 430K miles on than he does the Ford with 60K. Let them make the decision. Again the repair prices should be based on materials and time. Most repairs will take longer than you figure before hand. After you have done some, then you will have a feel for an ''average''. I think Bob mentioned a kitchen timer to keep track of time. Great advice. If you do something and are interrupted, time out. If you are working on a few things, keep individual time. That will give you a better feel for actual times when you are done. Keep the estimate kind of open to allow for the "how did the maker do that" surprises. Once you have done a few, you will probably add about 20% to actual time as a fudge factor for quotes. The easy ones will make it up for the harder ones.

There are a lot of solid concepts in Bob's book, but don't get hung up on his own prices either way.

[barra]

Never sell yourself short. You are a skilled Tradesman. In my experience terms like Artisan and Leathercrafter conjour up images of cottage craft hobby type industries and people expect to pay for your time like it is a hobby. You are a leatherWORKer and as a modern society we are used to the concept of paying someone accordingly for their WORK. To add to what David and Bruce said. The mechanic or plumber charge what they do because they have earned the right. In most cases to get a trade you have invested as much blood sweat and tears getting your qualification as anyone who went to University. While we may inwardly baulk at the car repair price we pay it. It is also my experience that some people think that a saddler is a ye olde world trade and should still receive ye olde world wages. As said just because the item was originally manufactured in the third world does not mean you then have to base your repair price on what the third world pays. If that means your repair is more than the item is worth, so be it. Never be afraid to say no to a repair.

If you are also a retail shop, it can be beneficial "sometimes" to under price the repair if you have dropped another job to carry out a customers repair on the spot. Making them feel like they are the most important person can reap more money out of them. As an example if you charge $15 for something you perhaps should have charged $25 and they end up walking out of your store with $100 of impulse buys, your a winner. They also leave feeling special and then the word of mouth spreads. Do not base your business on repairs. Treat them as a sideline to get customers into your store. Never let a person leave the shop with a repair without payment unless you have a seriously good relashionship with them. Also avoid the love jobs for family and friends.

Barra.

[braintanned]

Ryan,

I may be a bit more hard core on this than many but in the end it is a business. First thing you need to do is look at your fixed exspenses. How much do you need to make to cover your over head and no one can give you that figure but you. Then ask how much you want to make. A rule a very successful businessman once told me was that if you have a gross profit 2.5 times your labor cost you will have a functional business. Below that you will be hurting above that you will be smileing. That means if you want to make $10.00 an hour then you charge $35.00 ,$15.00 would mean you would charge $45.00,$20.00 would mean $70.00. Your a retail business so you should double your material cost. You shouldn't feel bad about it either because when you go get your car fixed or have to have the plumber come over they will be doing the same to you. It is just what it takes gad from what I can tell the Mayo clinic charges about $900.00 and hour and I have to pay that from what I'm making off my leather work.

A bigger question is often if you really have the professional level skills to get things done fast enough to get it done and still be with in the limits of what the market will bear. You are in a really really cheap market and Minnesotans are tough customers. They all figure they can do it themselves, so let them. Charge what you need to have the life you want and if they won't pay it move on. Although I live in Minnesota I do very little business in this state.

As for the retailers I view them as leaches, us them for fishing but keep them out of your business. If you can charge your normal rates and then let them mark it up as they need to, you will have a workable deal.They really don't offer you anything if you really think about it. If they want your work in their store make them pay for it. Don't build their business at your exspense because they will switch to the next guy so fast it will make your head spin. Retailers are retailers because they want to make fast easy money which is fine but many don't understand that you need to make a living too. With that said I will say I have had some good relationships with retailers over the years but they have been in places like New York, LA ,Santa Fe ,Jackson Hole but not in Minnesota.

David Genadek

I too live in Minnesota and find that most people here feel they can do it themselves. Being primarily a farming state it comes with the territory. I get most of my work from the other half of the equation, people who enjoy leather but know they don't have the time or expertise to repair tack. I charge accordingly with all of my customers. If I repair or accept a commission to your leather item you are asking me to custom repair or create a piece of leatherwork (or art in some cases). No one else can do what I do. Many can do something similar and many may do better, but your asking me to "a one of a kind" repair or cration based on my ability and your trust that I will do exactly what you ask. I am not a retailer. I have invested 40 pluse years in doing something I love to do and do well. I won't compromise that by doing it cheaper. As David says, "If they can do it, so let them.."

Braintanned