Replacing a broken tree

[ryan]

I recently received a saddle for cleaning and found that the tree had a pretty good split all the way through the bar just behind one of the stirrup leathers. I advised the customer of this and they now want to have the tree either replaced or repaired. It's doubtful the tree will be fixable as it appears the wood is getting a little punky. Has anyone sent old trees in to have duplicates made and where are some good places. I have looked at Bowden and Superior so far but just curious what others have done. Apparently price isn't much of a factor with this customer either.

Ryan

[bruce johnson]

Ryan,

I have had some duplicates made. They have all but one been by two tree makers and were production saddles. One was a Bowden, and the others were Hadlock and Fox. The H&F trees were all barrel racers that Circle Y made. I sent one of the broken trees back for duplicating. I got the runaround for a while. The duplicatoer guy went home tom Mexico for a few weeks, stayed a few weeks longer, then took a while to make them. I told them to keep the measurements and I might be ordering more later. THEN, they tell me that is one of our production trees, we just don't catalog them anymore. you can just call and ask for a number ---. We make several up a week, and can have them within 3 weeks regardless. Of course they charged me duplicate prices, not the --- production price. Most of the parts fit back OK. After that little experience I have done a few more. I just ordered whatever the original stock tree was in it's size, and things have fit pretty well. On a cutter, the only thing that didn't fit was the gullet cover.

Out of curiosity, what type of tree had the broken bar, and was the rawhide scored?

[jwwright]

Ryan, another option for you might be to have the tree repaired. Only outfit I have first hand knowledge of doing that work well, is Ray Lewis. Ray and his brother are a 2 man shop building custom trees at Hereford, TX, and they also rebuild trees and glass them. I have been getting trees from Ray, but have not ever used the tree rebuild service........reports from others who have, have been good. Contact number is 806-364-0102.

[Blake]

Hi Ryan

Try calling the Manufacturer of the saddle . If it is a production saddle then more than likely the tree is still available and will probably be a little cheaper than getting a duplicate made and the old leather will usually fit better too.

What is the brand name of the saddle ? Maybe me or someone elase on the list will know who supplies the trees for that particular company.

Blake

[ryan]

Thanks for all the great suggestions! First of all, I don't think it was rawhide covered. It almost looks like a burlap material but could be just really old fiberglass? I haven't looked real close at the tree since I ceased all work upon noticing the crack. I won't be able to look at it until this weekend but will post again and let everyone know what I find out. I am leaning towards boxing it up and sending it to Bowden with the hopes that they may have a similar stock tree, but I might give Ray a call and see what he says too. As I said in my original post, the tree appears to be a little rotten but I won't know for sure til I strip it down. There is a maker stamp on the seat just behind the hand hole but I can't read it.

Thanks

Ryan

[superchute]

years a go we had a tree replaces in a saddle and the tree was sent to a guy in Pine bluffs wyo and thay put a new tree in it and sent it back. The thing is I do not rember the guys name or a thing may be some here my now of the guy there

Russ

[Bob]

I've fiberglassed broken bars before, many years ago. It was a cutter, that saddle is still in use today. However, it was a rawhide tree and wasn't broken that bad. I mean not all the way through, just only part way on the top side where someone cut the rawhide when they made it. It was only a hassel lifting the ground seat. I didn't take the seat off, just lifted everything back and tied it there till it setup and dried. Fiberglass stinks and makes a mess in your shop. You gotta leave all the windows and door open.

Ryan, you may find the saddle is not worth replacing a tree and barely worth fixing it with fiber glass. In this part of the country, you would pay upwards of 1000 to 1200 for a replacement of a tree, and have to wait a good while to have that tree. Most makers don't wanna mess with duplicates, thats why they charge more for it. I sure wouldn't mess with doing a replacement tree. So many things could go wrong. You may end up replacing the swell cover or cantel back. You just can't say how accurate the duplicate will actually be, until it's on your bench and putting it back together. If the guy don't wanna buy a new one and really wants the old thing repaired, well thats my two bits worth. Chances are if the original maker didn't bother using a good tree to start with, then chances are it's not that much of a saddle either. Would it be worth a big fat bill to replace the tree? Plus all the hassel that goes with it? I sure hope these notes help you out, to think about what you maybe getting into.

[jonwatsabaugh]

Ryan,

From time to time I'll take in a repair job in with a broken tree. Since I make my own trees ,duplicating them isn't a real big problem but I prefer to strip the tree and fix it even if it's severely broken. I have about the same amount of time involved and the repair challenges my thought process, and everything fits back perfect. The last one I did was by far the worst as far as the breakage was concerned. Both bars were broke cleanly in half, and the fork and cantle were both split. From the looks of it, it appeared to be a Hadlock&Fox tree and the wood was pretty crude but it did have a nice bar profile on the bottom side. Since this one was a very extensive repair I took pictures progressively of the process to show how this is done. After final gluing, I double fiberglassed it (some places triple) then covered it with rawhide at the customers request. I have a lot more faith in a good fiberglass job than I do a good rawhide job by the way. He won't break it now unless he runs over it with his John Deere. I posted some pix of the process. I would be glad to help you out if you like.

Jon

[jonwatsabaugh]

My computer would'nt let me upload everything the first time so here is another pic

Jon

[steveh]

Jon, That is a really neat tree repair.The bar repair looks like you glued a hardwood plug thru the bar? Is photo #3 been fiberglassed? How did you repair the fork and the cantel?

Thanks, Steve

[mulefool]

If the saddle just has a burlap covered tree in it, it's hard to imagine it would be worth the expense of a new tree.

[David Genadek]

Replacing a tree is something everyone should do once so you know how to convince people not to do it in the future. The $ will very seldom add up. But you should know how.

David Genadek

[jonwatsabaugh]

Steve, After I glued and clamped the bars together, I milled a slot completely through the bar and made a beam of hard maple for a light hand press fit. Holes were then bored through the bar edges and pinned with dowels. This part of the assembly was secured with Gorilla glue. The fork and cantle were glued and pinned also. I removed the horn and reset it in Kevlar based epoxy. Photo three does show the tree fiberglassed, semi-finished. There are a lot of those old saddles out there with that useless cheese cloth covering on the tree that could have their life greatly extended by simply doing a quality “glass” job. Good fiberglassed trees just don't break. Ask the steer trippers and calf ropers down in Texas. Troy West has a great story concerning glass trees, I hope he will post it someday for all to read.

Jon

[SaddleQuestion]

Hi , Im one of those customers that wants to replace a tree in an old saddle. We have Spanish Mustangs so the older saddles fit and when we find one that fits its golden.  I bought it at a sale and I think its from the 1930's, probably an old Sears saddle.  Trying to attach photos , but  it doesnt like my JPEG apparently. Its not a wooden tree. We had it reconditioned a few years back and they told us the tree needed to be treated with care. Between my son and the young mare that was a fail.  Two pieces have broken off on one side. It looks rawhide wrapped , but almost like it might have been resin or bone? Lots of air holes inside which makes me think of bone. Just looking for options besides waiting until 3d printers become cheaper. 

 

Juerg

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I just replaced one for a customer, total was over $900, so it's not cheap. You need to carefully evaluate the rest of the saddle when putting a new tree in. If the other parts have a lot of wear and will soon need replacing or repair, it's easy to get a lot more in in than it's worth.  I would like to see photos of your old saddle.  Sounds a little like a ralide tree that at some point might have been reinforced with rawhide, but ralide wasn't making trees in the '30's. I will say one good thing about a ralide tree, it does not cost nearly as much to replace. They are about a quarter of the cost of a good rawhide covered wood tree, but I see lots of broken ones.  I see a lot of older narrower saddles around that just don't fit horses very well today. They are usually pretty reasonably priced. Even if a person has to stick several hundred into it in other repairs, if the tree is sound, it may be a better option than replacing a broken tree. Just depends on what you're willing to spend and what you're willing to live with.

[Ropinkountz]

Was wondering if that Kevlar epoxy can fix a crack in a saddle then fiberglass it for extra strength.