Vinegaroon'd leather turning brown

[JoelR]

I'm still a noob at leather-working, so if this is a 'common sense' thing, just smack me in the back of the head...

I've completed my third holster. This is the second holster I have dyed with vinegaroon and both have a subtile brown shade to them after top-coating.

My finishing process is as follows:

1) Immerse in vinegaroon for 2 minutes. Allow to sit for about 5 minutes for the chemical process to take place and thoroughly rinse. Allow to thoroughly dry (a few days in front of a fan).

2) Treat the entire holster with Lexol leather conditioner. At least three applications rubbed in with a soft toothbrush. (Don't know why I use a toothbrush. It was just handy the first time I did this and seemed effective so I have continued that way.) Allow to fully penetrate and 'dry' 24 hours.

3) Buff the surface of the leather to remove any oxidation that may be present before final coating.

4) Apply 3 to 4 layers of Tan-Kote with an air-brush, allowing to fully dry between coats and giving a good buffing.

I'm guessing the issue is with the Tan-Kote. I have a few straps that dyed with vinegaroon and conditioned but did not seal with the Tan-Kote that are still jet-black.

Any thoughts? I'm thinking of changing to Resolene to see if there is a difference...

[TwinOaks]

After vinegarooning, you shouldn't need any top coat. You will need to apply oil/conditioner and rub it in very well. I've found that after the chemical change, the leather is pretty dang water resistant. My thought is that it's because of a lot of the tallows in the leather being pushed to the surface. That's why you need to rub/buff the leather well- you're forcing some of them back into the leather.

[ps0303]

JoelR,

Is the holster wet formed before you soak it in the vinegroon? Are you also soaking it in baking soda and water mixture to stop the chemical process?

I like Resolene as my final finish.

[JoelR]

ps0303,

The holster is wet-formed before the vinegarooning process.

The straps were baking soda soaked for about 5 minutes. The holsters have not been. I did rinse them pretty well, but they still smell heavily of vinegar so obviously there is solution still in the leather. It was suggested by the local Tandy worker that the vinegar could be reacting with the Tan-Kote if that is where you are going...

Edited July 25, 2009 by JoelR

[MADMAX22]

I would try assempling, then dunk in vine for a few minutes, rinse, then give it a quick bakind soda bath.

After that allow it to dry enough to form well and do your wet forming and allow to dry completely after this.

Then do your oil/conditioning.

The only thing Ive used on vinegaroon is leather balm with attom wax and it stays nice and black. As stated though the process brings tallows or waxes to the surface of the leather which makes it about as sealed as its gonna get IMO.

[ps0303]

I had been reading on here that some soak it in the vinegroon, rinse, soak in baking soda solution then let it dry a bit and then wet form. I've been concerned that all of the soaking would cause the leather to be limp.

MADMAX22,

I've never tried the balm with atom wax. Might have to try it. Any particular brand?

[MADMAX22]

I had been reading on here that some soak it in the vinegroon, rinse, soak in baking soda solution then let it dry a bit and then wet form. I've been concerned that all of the soaking would cause the leather to be limp.

MADMAX22,

I've never tried the balm with atom wax. Might have to try it. Any particular brand?

At first yes the leather will not be ready to form, you gotta let it dry for a while. Dont let it completely dry out but set it in front of a fan for a little while. Then wet form it and you should be good to go.

I just use the feibings I think it is, something like a nuetral shoe polish works good also.

[JoelR]

I took a look at the board I am spraying my airbrush clean against and noticed that the board has a 'natural leather' hue to it where the excess Tan-Kote has been sprayed. So, could just be the sealant adding a hue to the final color that I am seeing. I'll try some of the other suggestions that have been offered and see what I get. My next big project that involves dying is a gun belt for myself...

[ChuckBurrows]

I repeat - if the leather is not turning dark black before adding oil or finish than add tannins i.e a strong black tea mix is cheap and works well, but their are other sources such as quebracho bark or oak bark. This seems to be more necessary with import hides than with either W & C or Herman Oak.... The tea can be added before or after applying the vinegar - I generally give my a leather a short soak in the tea, let the surface dry and than apply the vinegar black.......re-apply both if need be......Using rusty iron can also be a cause for the brownish tinge........

Vinegar blacking is NOT a dye - it is a chemical reagent and the colorization is due to the reaction between the ferric acetate (what you get by dissolving iron in acetic acid - in this case the vinegar) and the tannins in the leather....

The oiling and or top finish may "deepen" the color but that's no different than deepenin the color of natural leather with the same products.

The reason for the leather seeming to be "finished" after the application is not due to forcing "tannins" to the surface, but rather due to "tightening" the surface grain.........In my 35+ years of using this a good top coat is still highly recommended.......

Edited July 28, 2009 by ChuckBurrows

[JoelR]

As a follow-up (as I know that the vinegroon thing is re-visted every-so-often), I have two holsters that were colored using vinegroon. One remains black, the other is more of an antique brown - Can't think of any other way to describe it. I'll have to look at my notes as to what the differences were between the finishing of the two and see if I can get a picture of the two of them side-by-side for others to see. I rather like the brown-ish black of the 1911 holster - Hate the leather though (my first skin and it was a 5/6oz, thin, stretchy belly from Tandy)... I know that both used the same hide and the blacker of the two was the one died first.

BTW: Never did get to that gunbelt I had mentioned, but did get to make one for a 4-year-old. Watch out who you show your work to - you may become the building contractor who's own home is falling down around him...

Edited December 21, 2009 by JoelR