Okay, how about a pattern for a dog muzzle?

[VonFuct]

Has anyone made a dog muzzle before? If so, do you have a pattern or some pics I could look at?

Thanks in advance!

[Trauma]

What is the purpose of the muzzle?

There are several situations requiring muzzles, and they each need to be matched to the right muzzle.

Is this a commission job? Or personal?

If it's a commission job, find out more details and make sure you know exactly what you're making. Liability might be an issue here if the customer is ordering the wrong tool for their task.

If it's personal, talk to a dog trainer or behaviourist first and find out what type of muzzle you will need.

A professional will be able to tell you exactly what you need. (if they know you're a leather worker you might even get referals )

[UKRay]

If it's a commission job, find out more details and make sure you know exactly what you're making. Liability might be an issue here if the customer is ordering the wrong tool for their task.

If it's personal, talk to a dog trainer or behaviourist first and find out what type of muzzle you will need.

A professional will be able to tell you exactly what you need. (if they know you're a leather worker you might even get referals )

This sounds like very good advice to me - I'd also suggest you take a walk to your local pet store and scope out what they have on sale... obvious, but worth saying. Then check out online photographs of dogs that are obliged to be muzzled in public places to get some idea what is already being made.

I make quite a bit of dog equipment and can't see this as a particularly lucrative sideline, but good luck anyway!

Ray

[Spence]

You can't expect to keep the muzzle on the dog 24/7.

I'd recommend looking at various online suppliers to see what is available to thwart this behavior. I have used "Bitter Apple" (liquid spray) with great success in the past. I've also had just as much success with just watching the dog and stopping the chewing as it is about to start. I suspect it is a young dog and if so, it will grow out of it, but someone has to take control. A muzzle is not the answer.

On the other hand, if you want to look at muzzles, go here: http://www.rayallen.com/category/Muzzles

Also go here for a sizing chart (scroll down past the bite suit): http://www.rayallen.com/downloads/RAM_SizeChart.pdf

But, give the dog a break and train it.

[VonFuct]

Thanks guys!

Trauma, it's a personal job, not a commissioned piece and the purpose of the muzzle is to keep my roommates dog, Duke, from chewing on everything in the house when he is left unsupervised (which isn't that often). He's a 6 month old pit bull and still chewing on everything from the carpet, the wood door jams, electronics cables and plugs, the furniture, etc. When he's supervised, he's fine for the most part. It's when he's left alone (with my dog, Bella, a 20lb 8 year old beagle) that he tends to chew and eat everything he can get his mouth on. He has nyla bones, kongs, and various other chew toys but he still chews on things he shouldn't be when he's alone.

UKRay, I did go to the pet store last night before posting this thread and all they had were flimsy cloth muzzles for smaller (weaker jawed) dogs. I talked with a couple there that had two pit bulls and they said their dog broke the muzzles they sold there in less than 30 seconds. I went online and looked as well but wasn't able to find any patterns for a leather training muzzle. Duke is not an aggressive dog at all, so the muzzle is not to control biting, just his chewing. And no, it's not to get in to the dog muzzle buisness, it's just to get one that fits correctly, is safe and works.

Spence, no, I don't expect to keep the muzzle on 24/7. More like an hour or two a day when the dog is left alone. I have looked at other options as well, such as Bitter Apple but I would have to dose my entire house with the stuff to make a difference. Yes, Duke is still a young dog and I'm sure he'll grow out of it, but I can't afford to have him eat everything in the house until he does. And yes, the dog is stopped from doing the negative behaviors when we are around to witness them, it's when he's alone that he get's in to trouble.

Thanks again guys for the replys!

[frontpost]

Crate train the dog.

[Timd]

Crate train the dog.

Exactly what I was thinking

[CitizenKate]

Exactly what I was thinking

Thirded. (If there is such a thing.)

Kate

[cybertracy]

I fouthed it, and not to get on a soapbox (don't even know what one looks like) but to make a muzzle heavy-duty enough to keep a Pitt Bull muzzled (somewhat short snouts for so much lower jaw, as well as all that extra jowlage and neck skin that was I believe is a trait bread into such dogs to, among other things, thwart their jaws from being held shut) it would almost have to be along the lines of Hannibal Lechter's device. Even with the easier breeds to muzzle, the muzzles are short-term, rather uncomfortable and distracting devices designed for veterinarian visits or other such events. A dog left alone trying like crazy to work a muzzle off his face can get into lots of trouble and perhaps hurt himself.

Crating or even dog-proofing a spot in the garage, laundry room, bathroom or some small area where he can be comfortable in for a few hours would probably be a better idea.

But. . . if anyone has a pattern that will fit my 62-year-old mother-in-law, I'd appreciate a holler.

Edited August 13, 2009 by cybertracy

[CarvedOn]

Ahh Haaa Haaaa! Mother-in-law muzzle! ROLF! Like to see that.

[VonFuct]

thanks but no thanks. Maybe no one actually read the initial post or my replies, I didn't ask if I should kennel train him or what your thoughts on how to train a dog were. I simply asked if anyone had made a muzzle or had a pattern for one. It's not even my dog so I can't make the choice to kennel train him or not. And yes, I know about kennel training and suggested it to my roommate multiple times. And you people all make it out like muzzles are animal abuse and like I'm planning on leaving it on the dog for days at a time. No, it would simply be a training aid. whatever.

[Spence]

Get a new roommate.

You were asked why you needed a muzzle and you answered. That invited more comment. Here's another one....a muzzle should NEVER be left on an unsupervised dog for any length of time. Period.

[VonFuct]

No, I didn't invite any comment or ask for anyones opinion (I have opinions too, but I keep them to myself unless asked) on the use of muzzles. Not that you people care but I'm about a day away from having my roommate get rid of the dog all together since he's not capible of dealing with him but I was TRYING to find another option since I know the dog is just not trained well enough yet. Thanks for making a new guy on your forum feel so welcome. To be honest, I joined this forum to learn more about leatherwork, not to hear random peoples opinion on dog training. If i wanted that, I would have joined a dog training forum.

[celticleather]

But. . . if anyone has a pattern that will fit my 62-year-old mother-in-law, I'd appreciate a holler.

These have been around since medieval times, called a scold's bridle! The tab on the inside held the tongue down and stopped it flapping!

[CitizenKate]

What is so difficult about putting him in a kennel, as compared to putting a muzzle on him when you have to leave him alone?

Kate

[VonFuct]

What is so difficult about putting him in a kennel, as compared to putting a muzzle on him when you have to leave him alone?

Kate

How is putting the WHOLE dog in a cage better than just putting a cage on his mouth? I'm not opposed to kennel training at all, in fact I suggested it to my roommate more than once, I just don't see why so many people are anti-muzzle if used in a safe and humane way. The more I read from QUALIFIED dog trainers, the more I think a muzzle can be a very helpful training aid. If you all think muzzles are so evil and bad, why do most vet's and dog groomers use them as well as a large number of dog trainers?

[CitizenKate]

How is putting the WHOLE dog in a cage better than just putting a cage on his mouth? I'm not opposed to kennel training at all, in fact I suggested it to my roommate more than once, I just don't see why so many people are anti-muzzle if used in a safe and humane way. The more I read from QUALIFIED dog trainers, the more I think a muzzle can be a very helpful training aid. If you all think muzzles are so evil and bad, why do most vet's and dog groomers use them as well as a large number of dog trainers?

A kennel is safer for the dog. But hey, just because I've owned and trained dogs myself for over thirty years (how about you?), don't take my word. The QUALIFIED trainers who taught me would also be happy give you a clue-by-four.

But whatever. If you're that determined to use muzzle, at least use one that is designed for pets (such as a wirebasket model), made and properly fitted by a QUALIFIED maker. I would surmise that would not be you.

Kate

[wildrose]

While you did ask for a pattern, Von Fuct, it isn't outside of the range of this forum for people to try to give constructive advise on alternatives. No one was slamming you by suggesting crate training. The fact that you yourself had suggested it to your roommate tells us that you knew of it too; the wise thing would've been to just state you'd done so and leave it at that, without getting defensive.

My family has owned Airedale Terriers for years; and anyone with terriers will tell you what chewers they are. We have always crate trained them, and it has never harmed them. A muzzle could get caught on any number of things within the home, and cause alot more trouble than a dog in a crate. It's sad that your roommate doesn't understand the potential benefits. Perhaps you could present them with research on both subjects (crate vs muzzle)

Crate training can be abused of course: my mom's boss kept his Airedale in a crate all day long and couldn't understand why the poor dog was bonkers upon being let out.

People are only trying to give suggestions, so let's not turn this into a shoving match, okay? No one is out to debate the value of properly used muzzles.

[tonyc1]

What is crate training?

Tony.

[VonFuct]

Wildrose, THANK YOU! I appreciate your reply very much. And yes, I will talk with my roommate about both crate training and muzzle use. Not trying to turn this in to an online shoving match at all, I'm just frustrated with a bad situation and trying to find a workable solution.

[wildrose]

Von Fuct, I understand how frustrating chewing dogs can be. The Airedale my parents have now is their first female, and she is mouthy about everything! She's not a mean biter, but just is always snappy. She's also a jumper - almost knocked my son down a set of stairs. Friendly dog, poorly trained. The training is everything.

My understanding/experience, Tony, is that crate or kennel training is the use of a metal (or other) "cage" appropriate to the dog's size where you put a nice bed and things to keep him/her comfortable when you need him/her contained. I.e. you're going out to the store or when we had puppies we'd put him/her in there overnight to keep them from wetting around the house. It is NOT for very long periods (as my mother's boss found out).

It should not be a negative experience for the dog. It should almost be like a "den" where they feel safe. We left our crate up with the door open for quite some time as the latest Airedale grew, and often found her or one of the cats snuggling in there. She knew she could get in away from the visiting kids there (though I have a funny pic of my son climbing in there with her!)

Muzzles can be important too. I often see a variety of them on dogs being walked; or at groomers; or on tv vet shows where the vets are unfamiliar with how the dog will react to treatment.

[CitizenKate]

It should not be a negative experience for the dog. It should almost be like a "den" where they feel safe. We left our crate up with the door open for quite some time as the latest Airedale grew, and often found her or one of the cats snuggling in there. She knew she could get in away from the visiting kids there (though I have a funny pic of my son climbing in there with her!)

The younger of my two dogs was potty-trained when I adopted him (he was rescued from a shelter), but had a horrible chewing problem. I would come home for lunch and find chewed-up stuff all over the house. Oh, no, my sheepskin slippers!!!

Crating him ended that problem instantly. Beyond the first day or two, none of my dogs have minded being crated when they were in training. I could just say, "Go kennel", and he went in, sat down, and waited for me to close the door. It really is not difficult to do at all. But just remember, you can't leave them there more than a few hours at a time, and be there to mind him when he's out. Then, you can gradually allow him to spend more time outside the crate, but you'll find he will still want to go there when he wants to be left alone.

Muzzles can be important too. I often see a variety of them on dogs being walked; or at groomers; or on tv vet shows where the vets are unfamiliar with how the dog will react to treatment.

They are very useful for training or when the dog is being handled, but I don't think you'll find too many trainers or makers of muzzles who advocate leaving a dog unattended with a muzzle.

Kate

[SunshineNative]

Finally a subject I DO know something about. Canines: wolfs or dogs!

Muzzles certainly have their uses and their place, but for the problem you are having.... well.... this isn't the place or time to be using a muzzle. Pits are as sweet as any other animal when born, its when humans make the wrong choices that they are taught aggressiveness and poor social behaviour. I wouldn't want you to lose your friend because he becomes aggressive with a muzzle on. His behaviour is telling you something!

The problem with him destroying items by chewing is his way of telling you he is fearful and needs some boundaries. Buy a STURDY crate, but you cannot just dump him in there when you leave and expect all to be well when you come back. He has awesome jaw muscles and will take most crates apart like so much fodder. It will have to be metal, a good gauge.

While you and your roommate are in the home with him, let him explore the crate, like a great gift you have for him, be excited. Then place him inside with a blankie, and some of his toys, close the door and wait 15 minutes. He may scream and fret, but dont let him out until your time expectation is up. Do it several times during the time you are home. Each time give him a treat, lots of hugs etc for having been a good boy in his crate. At night, he should be sleeping in a crate.

Crate training a canine is a way to provide a safe haven for him/her to go to when all is hectic about the home. From the first night with a new puppy, crate training should be on your mind. He will know where his "room" is, and it can be used as a time out spot, a quiet refuse from a busy home, and a secure place to lay his head and rest.

Furthermore, I would suggest a $110 investment into a puppy class. I don't usually recommend a specific place, but will tell you that PetSmart has an awesome training program for novices. It isn't so much about training the canine, but more about training the people how to deal with the canines and how to teach boundaries and get the expected results.

Good Luck!

Thanks guys!

Trauma, it's a personal job, not a commissioned piece and the purpose of the muzzle is to keep my roommates dog, Duke, from chewing on everything in the house when he is left unsupervised (which isn't that often). He's a 6 month old pit bull and still chewing on everything from the carpet, the wood door jams, electronics cables and plugs, the furniture, etc.

Thanks again guys for the replys!

[cybertracy]

Good job wildrose . . . and I'm sorry VonFuct if you felt unwelcome, that was not my intention nor to judge your training methods. As a Veterinarian Technician for 12 years, I was only trying to point out how hard it would be to make a safe or effective muzzle for a Pitt Bull, and as others have stated, how unsafe an unsupervised muzzled dog can be (like a 2-year-old child playing with a plastic bag, may be fine, but the potential is scary). You will make the right choice for your situation I am sure.

Celticleather. . HA! THANK YOU! I'll try to reproduce on of those Scold's Bridles and hang it on the wall next to my 120-year-old prison shackles near where she sits for dinner. Not that I'm threatening her or anything but my "unconventional" decorating flair did damper her down a bit~perhaps with today's economy and the consolidated families living under one roof, these could make a comeback!

Edited August 14, 2009 by cybertracy

[tonyc1]

Von Fuct, I understand how frustrating chewing dogs can be. The Airedale my parents have now is their first female, and she is mouthy about everything! She's not a mean biter, but just is always snappy. She's also a jumper - almost knocked my son down a set of stairs. Friendly dog, poorly trained. The training is everything.

My understanding/experience, Tony, is that crate or kennel training is the use of a metal (or other) "cage" appropriate to the dog's size where you put a nice bed and things to keep him/her comfortable when you need him/her contained. I.e. you're going out to the store or when we had puppies we'd put him/her in there overnight to keep them from wetting around the house. It is NOT for very long periods (as my mother's boss found out).

It should not be a negative experience for the dog. It should almost be like a "den" where they feel safe. We left our crate up with the door open for quite some time as the latest Airedale grew, and often found her or one of the cats snuggling in there. She knew she could get in away from the visiting kids there (though I have a funny pic of my son climbing in there with her!)

Muzzles can be important too. I often see a variety of them on dogs being walked; or at groomers; or on tv vet shows where the vets are unfamiliar with how the dog will react to treatment.

Thank you for your explanation. It's just like confining your dog to a certain area like a yard or a run while you're not around. I guess it's similar to using a baby's playpen!!!

Tony.