Spirit-based vs water-based dyes

[Tina]

Well people, I stand by my oppinion about EF:-)

There is a whole bunch of nice stuff here but...I still think the product is not a total dye quallity... Why? Most of the colors (blues/reds/purples/greens) is still looking more like acryllic paint, not dye that penetrate and leaves the wonderful natural texture, veins and such of leather, it hides it. The product is way to opac like paint than transparant as dye.

Still my 2 cents :-)

[CitizenKate]

This may be hard to tell from the pictures, since there obviously is some paint used in some places in the examples above. I use both spirit dyes and water-based dyes. The water-based dyes do penetrate into the leather and do not cover the surface texture any more than a spirit dye does. Maybe this image will make that a little easier to tell:

I certainly am not here to tell anyone what dye or any other product they should use on their products. Everyone gets to make their own choices based on what kind of results they want, and that is as individual as fingerprints. Although I use both water and spirit-based dyes, for each project, I weigh the trade-offs between water-based and spirit dyes. Here is my #1 reason for not using spirit dyes in every case: light-fastness.

Here are two pieces of leather I applied two different colors of Angelus dye to, Turquoise and Oxblood. This is how it appeared on June 30:

I placed the samples in a south-facing window, where they get several hours exposure to direct sunlight every day. Here is how the same two samples looked on July 17, slightly more than two weeks later:

You can see there is no more turquoise, and the oxblood is now a very pleasing shade of orange-red. Granted, this is brutal treatment in terms of light exposure, but it gives you an idea of what to expect on an item that might be used outdoors.

Here are some pieces of leather I applied three different colors of Eco-Flo dye to, yellow, red, and blue. This is how they appeared on July 8, 2007:

I placed them in the same location, same lighting conditions, as the other pieces, and here is how they appeared a month later:

You can see the leather became more tan-colored from the exposure to the sun, but the pigment colors have not changed much at all, not even the blue one. (This was the "old" blue, that was recalled by Tandy and replaced with a better formula.)

After this little experiment was done, I totally forgot my samples sitting in the window, and didn't notice them until 10 months later. Here's what they looked like then:

Well, obviously you can see some fading of the pigments now, and I didn't seal the leather after applying the dye, so there is also some moisture damage, but this is after receiving several hours of direct sunlight for almost a year.

Kate

[Tina]

This may be hard to tell from the pictures, since there obviously is some paint used in some places in the examples above. I use both spirit dyes and water-based dyes. The water-based dyes do penetrate into the leather and do not cover the surface texture any more than a spirit dye does. Maybe this image will make that a little easier to tell:

I certainly am not here to tell anyone what dye or any other product they should use on their products. Everyone gets to make their own choices based on what kind of results they want, and that is as individual as fingerprints. Although I use both water and spirit-based dyes, for each project, I weigh the trade-offs between water-based and spirit dyes. Here is my #1 reason for not using spirit dyes in every case: light-fastness.

Here are two pieces of leather I applied two different colors of Angelus dye to, Turquoise and Oxblood. This is how it appeared on June 30:

I placed the samples in a south-facing window, where they get several hours exposure to direct sunlight every day. Here is how the same two samples looked on July 17, slightly more than two weeks later:

You can see there is no more turquoise, and the oxblood is now a very pleasing shade of orange-red. Granted, this is brutal treatment in terms of light exposure, but it gives you an idea of what to expect on an item that might be used outdoors.

Here are some pieces of leather I applied three different colors of Eco-Flo dye to, yellow, red, and blue. This is how they appeared on July 8, 2007:

I placed them in the same location, same lighting conditions, as the other pieces, and here is how they appeared a month later:

You can see the leather became more tan-colored from the exposure to the sun, but the pigment colors have not changed much at all, not even the blue one. (This was the "old" blue, that was recalled by Tandy and replaced with a better formula.)

After this little experiment was done, I totally forgot my samples sitting in the window, and didn't notice them until 10 months later. Here's what they looked like then:

Well, obviously you can see some fading of the pigments now, and I didn't seal the leather after applying the dye, so there is also some moisture damage, but this is after receiving several hours of direct sunlight for almost a year.

Kate

Just use a sealer and "problem" solved.

There's not an aqurelle painting in the world that can stand the sun, needs protection in form of UV filtered glass...Any oil painting will last for centuries with propper sealer. Any fabric will get destoid from the sun without protection and so on...

Now, I was talking about the lack of life in EC, it's more like a mix between dye and paint...I do have a few objects at home with this medium and I can see first hand, not just from these photos.

Still, I understand this is a matter of taste and preferences and maybe even the ability to use the product but my vote will go to the vivid colored spirit dyes any day of the week and I will still think EF is a secondary quallity "dye", end of my 2 cents!

Edited August 23, 2009 by Tina

[CitizenKate]

Just use a sealer and "problem" solved.

Sure, nobody in their right mind (who should know better, anyway) would turn loose of a leather item that has not been properly sealed to protect the colors. The point of the test was to put the colors of both dyes under more stress than you would usually expose them to so I could compare how they hold up over time without having to wait years. Both sets of samples received the exact same treatment.

There's not an aqurelle painting in the world that can stand the sun, needs protection in form of UV filtered glass...Any oil painting will last for centuries with propper sealer. Any fabric will get destoid from the sun without protection and so on...

Of course you wouldn't hang your paintings out in the sun. But a large percentage of leather items are not made to just hang on a wall and be kept in museum-like environmental conditions. They are designed to be used for various purposes indoors or outdoors, and they do get exposed to the elements.

Still, I understand this is a matter of taste and preferences and maybe even the ability to use the product but my vote will go to the vivid colored spirit dyes any day of the week and I will still think EF is a secondary quallity "dye", end of my 2 cents!

I do agree that I like how spirit-based dyes go onto the leather much better than water-based dyes. That is why I still use them for some things. If that is your main consideration, as it is for many people, I do not question your choice at all.

It sill pains me when someone emails me a year later, telling me all the brown is gone from a custom chess board I labored for hours to get just the way they wanted it, for no other reason than its having sat out in normal indoor lighting conditions. That is the sort of thing that keeps me searching for the "perfect" dye. As far as I'm concerned, I have yet to find one.

Kate