Cowboy Crafts Online Report post Posted March 28, 2008 I just wanted to hear some others thoughts on In Seat Rigs. I have never built one, but have had a few people ask me some of the ranch rodeos I attend if I would. I have been thinking on making one to take to the WRCA finals. Has anyone else used this rigging style, if so Pros and Cons? Ashley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jwwright Report post Posted March 28, 2008 Ashley, I guess great or warped minds think alike. I have been giving some though to building a seat rig also. Tracy Moss on this board used to work for Olivers, I think. I sent him a message to get his thoughts on seat rigs, this morning. Hopefully, he'll chime in here. JW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TroyWest Report post Posted March 30, 2008 Ashley, I've made several seat rig saddles. One for a cowboy on the Waggoner Ranch in Vernon, Tx. , another for a cowboy in Longview, Tx. with a large pre-con outfit. They both really seemed to love 'em. The first one I'd ever seen was in Bob Marrs shop in Amarillo many years ago. He built a lot of them. His opinion was pretty favorable . He told me the pull of the rigging went completely over the top of the seat. As you probably already know many of the trophy saddles at the ranch rodeos are custom made seat rigs. It's not a new concept as there are several very old seat rigged saddles in Don Kings museum. Upside: they're not that difficult to build. Fenders are much narrower than normal. One layer of leather less under your leg than a flat plate, one more than a skirt rig. Downside: You really have to get your patterns right, fenders are narrower than normal to go up in the slot , slot in seat has to be wide enough to allow forward movement of stirrup leathers, slot doesn't need to be too high or too low. Outside of those ranch rodeo circles a seat rigged saddle is looked at as a pretty odd duck . Just depends on where your market is. There was an old saddlemaker in Guthrie, Tx. named Tooter Cannon. He passed away some time back but he made mostly seat rigged saddles, if not exclusively. As a result, he designed a piece of hardware for the rig that was very flat and it was called a Tooter Cannon rigging. Glenn Pointer, a bit and spur maker made these. I can probably find the pattern for it in my files if you want to see what it loos like. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gtwister09 Report post Posted March 30, 2008 Troy, "Tooter Cannon" it has been a while since I heard that name. I would be interested in seeing the pattern for the rigging. Regards, Ben Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jwwright Report post Posted March 30, 2008 Troy, I would appreciate seeing your seat rig hardware pattern. I am familiar with Pointer's hardware, and Danny Pollard from Merkel, Tx is building hardware for me. At least amongst my contemporaries, the seat rig fairly popular. I would like to build one to play around with for myself, and get it right before I offer it to potential customers. Thanks, JW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kseidel Report post Posted March 30, 2008 Biggest drawback in my experience is the painful pinching of the rider's leg between the fender and the edge of the slot. I have not found a way to eliminate this without an unsightly large slot for the fender. Keith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greg gomersall Report post Posted March 30, 2008 We discussed seat rigs some back before Katrina or whatever the crash was named. Otto Earnst of Sheridan Wy. patented the seat rigged saddle back in the 20's or early 30's. I posted a page from an old Earnst catalog showing the info a day or so before the crash so that is gone forever but once things get back to normal round here I will re-post it. Greg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldtimer Report post Posted March 30, 2008 We discussed seat rigs some back before Katrina or whatever the crash was named. Otto Earnst of Sheridan Wy. patented the seat rigged saddle back in the 20's or early 30's. I posted a page from an old Earnst catalog showing the info a day or so before the crash so that is gone forever but once things get back to normal round here I will re-post it. Greg Greg, What is a "seat rig" ? Never heard of it before!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jwwright Report post Posted March 30, 2008 Oldtimer......I am not Greg, but here is a photo of a seat rigged saddle, made by Richard Oliver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldtimer Report post Posted March 30, 2008 Oldtimer......I am not Greg, but here is a photo of a seat rigged saddle, made by Richard Oliver. Thank´s for the pic! :wtf: Never seen anything like it before ! What´s the theory behind this construction ? I can´t see any advantage in it ?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TroyWest Report post Posted March 30, 2008 Here's the pattern of the hardware. It looks like the same hardware in the photo you posted of the Oliver saddle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TroyWest Report post Posted March 31, 2008 The seat rig saddles I made in the past were much like the one you showed in the photo, just a traditional seat rig, however, I thought you guys might get a kick out of seeing a much more non-traditional saddle I made a few years ago. It's a Mother Hubbard seat rig, meaning, the swell , seat, rig, and housing are all one piece of leather. There's no lacing behind the cantle as it is all one piece of leather. The design was to be a simple lightweight saddle. I really build very traditional saddles but I did this for the challenge. Like I said, thought you guys might get a kick out of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jwwright Report post Posted March 31, 2008 Very kewl Troy. I would think, at least in my case, the "pucker factor" would be high cutting and fitting that big chunk of leather. That would be an expensive and time consuming piece to end up as an unscheduled practice. Always terrific to see your work, and get your thoughts. Thanks, JW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gtwister09 Report post Posted March 31, 2008 (edited) Troy, What was the final weight of the saddle? What was the wight of the leather that you used? As others will say......WOW! Looks very neat and yes I would have to agree about the "pucker" factor. Great as always. Regards, Ben Edited March 31, 2008 by gtwister09 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyKnight Report post Posted March 31, 2008 Troy, That saddle would be a challenge with out the stamping.. with it is an awsome piece of work!! I have never seen a seat rig up in this part on the world. Andy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TroyWest Report post Posted March 31, 2008 Guys, I have slept since then. As you can see the date on the photo is 2002. I used my regular 13-15 oz. but picked it to the light end and I think it weighed maybe 32ish lbs. , but I really don't remember exactly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bruce johnson Report post Posted March 31, 2008 Troy, Very cool design. Question on your "insert-state-name-here" twist stirrup leathers. Is the wrap portion that comes on around and makes the stirrup hobble strap secured with a buckle or a hackamore hanger type knot? Yeah, I know I'll catch some flack. Here is a really different saddle with your distinctive floral patterns and all I can come up with is question on a skinny ol' piece of latigo. I promise I'll come up with a better question on the next one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TroyWest Report post Posted March 31, 2008 Hey, I appreciate you guys compliments very much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TroyWest Report post Posted March 31, 2008 Bruce, I put a buckle on my stirrup hobbles and it's usually in the front. Don't know why I don't have it showing in this photo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kseidel Report post Posted March 31, 2008 Troy, Is the top piece one piece without any separation at either end? I have been toying with making one all one piece but have been a bit uncertain as to shaping and getting the back skirt high enough. How did you form the first fitting? Also what did you do in the hand hole? Keith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bruce johnson Report post Posted March 31, 2008 Bruce,I put a buckle on my stirrup hobbles and it's usually in the front. Don't know why I don't have it showing in this photo. Troy, Maybe I am reading something into this picture that is not there. Is the stirrup hobble strap an extension of the wrap for the stirrup leather? I thought it was at first look. My mind is kicking around an idea here. I like the looks of the braided wraps. Could a guy leave his two ends coming out the bottom of a short barrel braid in the front, one shorter and attach a buckle, the other longer end make that the billet end? Hmmmmm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cowboy Crafts Online Report post Posted March 31, 2008 First off thank youto everyone that replied to my question about the seat rig. Next Troy that is a great looking saddle. I have one more question about the seat rig. Do you double the leather under the seat to give more strength to the rigging? Does that make any sense? Ashley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TroyWest Report post Posted March 31, 2008 Bruce, It's a traditional wrap and a stirrup hobble, 2 separate pieces. I'm sure what you are considering is possible. It sounds like your making a stirrup wrap that doubles as a hobble strap. Ashley, Thanks for the compliment.The answer to your question is yes. On a regular seat rig you do add a liner under the seat just like you would a flat plate. You sew the bottom edge but the top tapers away under the seat jockey and is simply glued. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TroyWest Report post Posted March 31, 2008 Keith, I meant to put that photo above in answer to your question. There is no separation either end. I started by making a template across the back of the cantle and cutting that line first. After I got it over the cantle I could shape it with my drawdown and then mark the spot for my horn. The hand hole is simply an oval hole. Hope that helps. Sorry the pictures in the wrong spot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Report post Posted March 31, 2008 Troy, your saddle work is amazing. After I picked my jaw up off the floor. I can't help buy wonder how you did that. How can you make that work? With the skirts joined to the seat and swell cover in one? Won't that be an amazing thing to sew on a machine? I think this saddle would be quite a job to reline the skirts. Beautiful workmanship Troy... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
