Adler 30-1 Threading Problem

[ginny]

Thanks to everyone who is posting! i would like to state that despite my computer literacy being pretty high, i seem unable to note the pg 1 vs pg 2 designation at the bottom of the page.

i have refreshed the posting several times in the last day or two... and feel pretty silly about now.

SOOOOOO WITH THAT SAID...

1. i know it is a 140 needle... Groz Beckert. it is a round barrel all the way around, and has a groove in the shank. the best i can tell you is that this specific needle worked about a year ago. so, i ASSUME (with risks! lol) that it should work again.

based on a 1:1 chart i found of their needles... i can tell you it is NOT a thread left or right specific needle, it is also not a twist point.

if i had to GUESS, i would say its a 2099 series or a 29 series

2. as for the needle being in the wrong position, i am AGAIN confused, because some people are telling me its correct, and some of you are telling me it is incorrect. i am posting pictures again of its most current setup.

3. as for the stitch length bracket, it IS at its lowest physical position, resulting in about 10 stitches per inch.. or should i say holes per inch, as the stitch is not being created.

[tonyc1]

Thanks to everyone who is posting! i would like to state that despite my computer literacy being pretty high, i seem unable to note the pg 1 vs pg 2 designation at the bottom of the page.

i have refreshed the posting several times in the last day or two... and feel pretty silly about now.

SOOOOOO WITH THAT SAID...

1. i know it is a 140 needle... Groz Beckert. it is a round barrel all the way around, and has a groove in the shank. the best i can tell you is that this specific needle worked about a year ago. so, i ASSUME (with risks! lol) that it should work again.

based on a 1:1 chart i found of their needles... i can tell you it is NOT a thread left or right specific needle, it is also not a twist point.

if i had to GUESS, i would say its a 2099 series or a 29 series

2. as for the needle being in the wrong position, i am AGAIN confused, because some people are telling me its correct, and some of you are telling me it is incorrect. i am posting pictures again of its most current setup.

3. as for the stitch length bracket, it IS at its lowest physical position, resulting in about 10 stitches per inch.. or should i say holes per inch, as the stitch is not being created.

The needle looks correct to me.

Tony.

[Wizcrafts]

I don't know if this has been tried yet, but let's go over it in case it hasn't been done yet.

• Thread the needle
• Raise the pressor foot with the lift lever
• Open the bobbin case cover plate and remove the bobbin from the bobbin case
• Replace the empty case in the hole
• Place a narrow piece of 1/8" thick firm leather under the needle (vegtan or latigo leather will do)
• Lower the pressor foot onto the material
• Slowly rotate the hand wheel toward you from the top until the needle penetrates the material
• Shine a light down from the right side and position it so you can see the point of the bobbin case and the needle below the material
• You should rotate the wheel until the bobbin case's pickup point move just past the needle and halts
• As you continue to rotate the wheel the needle should raise slightly, forming a loop to the right side, in front of the pickup point
• As you rotate more the bobbin case should reverse direction and move towards the eye of the needle, as the needle stays in position
• The thread loop should be captured by the point as the point wipes past the loop
• The top thread should be pulled over and under the bobbin case, then released as the needle moves up
• The foot should pull the material back for the next stitch.

Please perform these actions, slowly and report if the thread is indeed looping to the inside (right) and if it is picked up by the bobbin case pickup point. All stitching depends on this happening as described.

By the way: A #22 needle is best used with #138 thread. What size is the thread you are using now? If you are using #69 thread with that large needle, chances are good that skipped stitches will result.

PSS: A 29x3 needle measures a tish over 1 3/4" length. If your needle is shorter than 1 3/4" it won't sew. If it is measurably longer it would feed the looped thread under the shuttle that drives the bobbin case, jamming the machine.

[tonyc1]

I don't know if this has been tried yet, but let's go over it in case it hasn't been done yet.

• Thread the needle
• Raise the pressor foot with the lift lever
• Open the bobbin case cover plate and remove the bobbin from the bobbin case
• Replace the empty case in the hole
• Place a narrow piece of 1/8" thick firm leather under the needle (vegtan or latigo leather will do)
• Lower the pressor foot onto the material
• Slowly rotate the hand wheel toward you from the top until the needle penetrates the material
• Shine a light down from the right side and position it so you can see the point of the bobbin case and the needle below the material
• You should rotate the wheel until the bobbin case's pickup point move just past the needle and halts
• As you continue to rotate the wheel the needle should raise slightly, forming a loop to the right side, in front of the pickup point
• As you rotate more the bobbin case should reverse direction and move towards the eye of the needle, as the needle stays in position
• The thread loop should be captured by the point as the point wipes past the loop
• The top thread should be pulled over and under the bobbin case, then released as the needle moves up
• The foot should pull the material back for the next stitch.

Please perform these actions, slowly and report if the thread is indeed looping to the inside (right) and if it is picked up by the bobbin case pickup point. All stitching depends on this happening as described.

By the way: A #22 needle is best used with #138 thread. What size is the thread you are using now? If you are using #69 thread with that large needle, chances are good that skipped stitches will result.

PSS: A 29x3 needle measures a tish over 1 3/4" length. If your needle is shorter than 1 3/4" it won't sew. If it is measurably longer it would feed the looped thread under the shuttle that drives the bobbin case, jamming the machine.

I've never used an Adler patcher, but I have a Singer and the hand wheel must turn clockwise to operate.

Tony.

[ginny]

thanks to further posts.

i have to run out for a bit, but i will be back around 2pm EST, and will try wiz's method of checking, involving the flashlight etc.

thanks!

will give a full update.

[Wizcrafts]

I've never used an Adler patcher, but I have a Singer and the hand wheel must turn clockwise to operate.

Tony.

That is incorrect Tony. The wheel on almost all modern sewing machines turns counterclockwise. This is towards the operator, when pulled from the top in a downward direction, when facing the machine in the working position (in front of the machine body, lengthwise).

Edited November 11, 2009 by Wizcrafts

[oldtimer]

That is incorrect Tony. The wheel on almost all modern sewing machines turns counterclockwise. This is towards the operator, when pulled from the top in a downward direction, when facing the machine in the working position (in front of the machine body, lengthwise).

Wizcrafts, It depends on where the handwheel is located: If the handwheel is mounted on the shaft located on the front of the machine it should turn clockwise, and if it is mounted on the mainshaft ( on the right side of the machine) it should turn counter clockwise. There are options, so Tony was right!

( I´ll bet at least 20 cents , maybe 30, that the problem with this machine is the needle, wrong needle system ! Many patchers have passed through my shop and the main problem has been needles that were from the wrong needle system. )

A 332 LL needle measured from the top to the eye shall be 38,9mm = 1,53 inches

/ Knut

Edited November 11, 2009 by oldtimer

[ginny]

ok, i think we are getting somewhere!!! keep with me folks, your time is appreciated!!

i am uploading another video... after watching the needle action as Wiz described (thanks for the step by step) i THINK that the needle is coming up too soon, or the other option is that the shuttle is not timed correctly, and is starting its return motion too late.

after the needle goes down, and makes its slight up/down motion, the thread flips over to the right (i assume thats what people mean by 'loop') and lays over the groove in the shuttle. however, the needle begins to rise (and takes the thread with it of course) before the shuttle begins to return to its 'home' position. the result is that by the time the shuttle is in place to grab the upper thread, the thread is already too high.

not sure whether the issue is the timing of the needle or the timing of the shuttle...

but hopefully my analysis is correct?!?!

still would like some confirmation after the video is watched... is this flipping over of the thread on the right the correct 'loop' formation???

thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubqsluIfrpc

[ginny]

in addition... here is a closeup picture of the needle...

[oldtimer]

ok, i think we are getting somewhere!!! keep with me folks, your time is appreciated!!

i am uploading another video... after watching the needle action as Wiz described (thanks for the step by step) i THINK that the needle is coming up too soon, or the other option is that the shuttle is not timed correctly, and is starting its return motion too late.

after the needle goes down, and makes its slight up/down motion, the thread flips over to the right (i assume thats what people mean by 'loop') and lays over the groove in the shuttle. however, the needle begins to rise (and takes the thread with it of course) before the shuttle begins to return to its 'home' position. the result is that by the time the shuttle is in place to grab the upper thread, the thread is already too high.

not sure whether the issue is the timing of the needle or the timing of the shuttle...

but hopefully my analysis is correct?!?!

still would like some confirmation after the video is watched... is this flipping over of the thread on the right the correct 'loop' formation???

thanks.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=ubqsluIfrpc

It is a bit hard to see on the video. If the timing is correct the shuttlehook should pass the needle when the eye of the needle is below the hook, or it won´t grip the loop. If not, you must loosen the shuttle and reposition it on the gear rack. Think first, relocate then! And make sure the needle is of correct length! Hope this will help. / knut

Watched the needle pic. It is OK!

Edited November 11, 2009 by oldtimer

[tonyc1]

That is incorrect Tony. The wheel on almost all modern sewing machines turns counterclockwise. This is towards the operator, when pulled from the top in a downward direction, when facing the machine in the working position (in front of the machine body, lengthwise).

Well, Wiz, mine has the wheel on the front of the machine and I don't think it is an antique like some are using. Perhaps Singer made some for south of the equator and some for the north! What do you classify as modern?

Tony.

[ginny]

ok, so i dont think the timing of the shuttle is correct. how do i correct this? per the instructions i have, i can remove parts from the rack box... ultimately taking out and repositioning the shuttle carrier.

is this the correct way to adjust the shuttle, or is there another way?

in addition, there is mention of adjusting the shuttle driver by way of the eccentric pin... is this relevant as well?

in addition to adjusting the shuttle, do i need to adjust the needle bar lift?

[Wizcrafts]

Well, Wiz, mine has the wheel on the front of the machine and I don't think it is an antique like some are using. Perhaps Singer made some for south of the equator and some for the north! What do you classify as modern?

Tony.

Oops! I completely forgot that some patchers had the wheel mounted on the front. I have never seen one in action, so I didn't know that the wheel turned clockwise. I'll keep that in mind in case I do encounter such a machine. I apologize for the error.

I should now ask the question, "Does this Adler patcher have the hand wheel on the front or rear of the machine, when you sit in from of the long free-arm?" If the wheel faces the operator and rotation is supposed to be clockwise and Ginny is turning anti-clockwise, that would cause a failure to acquire the bobbin thread.

What I should have said was that most modern machines that have a wheel on the back of the main shaft turn counterclockwise.

Aside from that error it appears from the latest video that the shuttle is retarded in its action and needs to be advanced. Maybe the screw is loose that holds the gear on the underside of the shuttle assembly, or, maybe the shuttle gear needs to be advanced one tooth, in the rear rack. Once we know if the wheel is turning the right way, based on where it is mounted, we'll know if the timing is out or not. I think! Maybe.

[ginny]

ok, here is the the position of the wheel. i have been rotating counter clockwise...

[oldtimer]

ok, so i dont think the timing of the shuttle is correct. how do i correct this? per the instructions i have, i can remove parts from the rack box... ultimately taking out and repositioning the shuttle carrier.

is this the correct way to adjust the shuttle, or is there another way?

in addition, there is mention of adjusting the shuttle driver by way of the eccentric pin... is this relevant as well?

in addition to adjusting the shuttle, do i need to adjust the needle bar lift?

That´s the only way to correct the timing, and you can´t adjust the needle bar lift, so just advance the shuttle carrier one tooth.

The adjust the needle sideways so it almost touches the shuttle hook, sew and see what happens.

Have faith, Ginny! I have gone through this many years ago with my first old patcher, finally got my machine working and I learned a lot about sewing machines.

/ Knut

(PS: lost my 20 cents today! but I have a working Adler for sale !)

[ginny]

thanks Knut!

i will start working on it. i take stuff apart all the time, im not intimidated or anything, just didnt know if thats what i was SUPPOSED to do

(i just imagined the sewing machine in parts all over the living room, when someone walks in and says.. 'didnt you just know to turn that screw there 1/2 turn?') lol

lastly, if i need the shuttle to be coming forward sooner, i ASSUME i move it one tooth clockwise (if i were looking at the arm from underneath)

That´s the only way to correct the timing, and you can´t adjust the needle bar lift, so just advance the shuttle carrier one tooth.

The adjust the needle sideways so it almost touches the shuttle hook, sew and see what happens.

Have faith, Ginny! I have gone through this many years ago with my first old patcher, finally got my machine working and I learned a lot about sewing machines.

/ Knut

(PS: lost my 20 cents today! but I have a working Adler for sale !)

[ginny]

ok, first issue.

any suggestions on seized/stuck screws? trying to remove the first two screws...

per the instructions:

"parts can be examined or removed from the rack box by taking out the two screws (f) the cover plate"

seems two screws (f) are stttuuuuucckkkk....

i have started in with the wd-40...

[shoes]

ok, here is the the position of the wheel. i have been rotating counter clockwise...

i have the same machine, it gets cranked clockwise. try that ginny

[oldtimer]

ok, here is the the position of the wheel. i have been rotating counter clockwise...

Rotate the wheel clockwise !!!!

[oldtimer]

Ginny.

I have been comparing my Adler 30-1 with your movie, and I can definitely say that the problem with your machine is timing. The shuttle hook on mine passes the needle when it is it´s almost lowest position. Så you have to move the shuttle carrier one step ( or more)counter clockwise. I think that will solve your problem. Good luck!

/ Knut

Edited November 12, 2009 by oldtimer

[oldtimer]

Ginny.

I have been comparing my Adler 30-1 with your movie, and I can definitely say that the problem with your machine is timing. The shuttle hook on mine passes the needle when it is it´s almost lowest position. So you have to move the shuttle carrier one step ( or more)counter clockwise. I think that will solve your problem. Good luck!

/ Knut

Counter clockwise, when looking from above!

[ginny]

WE HAVE STITCHES!!!!!!!!!!

apparently clockwise on the wheel works better

ok, so the foot isnt traveling very far on the uptake... thus, not advancing the material...

i know that the stitch regulator bracket can be changed... improving how much the foot swings forward/back (decreasing stitches per inch)

but what controls how high the foot comes up to clear the material in order to allow for that swing forward/back??

also, does the machine stitch in reverse (ie turn the wheel the other way) or, do you just utilize the 360 degree rotating foot to back-tack?

THANK YOU TO ALL!!!

[Wizcrafts]

WE HAVE STITCHES!!!!!!!!!!

apparently clockwise on the wheel works better

ok, so the foot isnt traveling very far on the uptake... thus, not advancing the material...

i know that the stitch regulator bracket can be changed... improving how much the foot swings forward/back (decreasing stitches per inch)

but what controls how high the foot comes up to clear the material in order to allow for that swing forward/back??

also, does the machine stitch in reverse (ie turn the wheel the other way) or, do you just utilize the 360 degree rotating foot to back-tack?

THANK YOU TO ALL!!!

Congrats! You figured out how to get it to stitch. Now, about the stitch length.

The sliding bracket is one of two adjustments that affect stitch length. Move it all the way physically down, after locking the pressor foot in the lifted position. That is the maximum length setting on that part. You could lower the slider with the foot down, but you might not be able to lock it up to relieve the thread tension on top.

Look on the back of the head of the machine, over the lift lever. There is an adjuster with a butterfly knob on the back, mounted on the main pressure spring, over the lift lever. It is what sets the lift of the pressor foot, while it operates. A puck under it is raised by the action of the working machine. That puck hits the bottom of this butterfly adjusted part and causes it to lift the foot. If the foot is not lifting enough, move the adjuster away from the head, towards the back. There should be a notch in the pressure spring to stop the adjuster. Move it to there. Rotate the wheel with one hand and look at this area to see if the puck under the adjuster is hitting it firmly and causing the spring to raise up.

Note, that the end of the main pressure spring must go into a slot in the back of the head, to control the height of the pressor foot. Also, there must be some pressure set via the set screw over the middle of that leaf spring (enough to prevent the needle and thread from lifting the material on the way up, as a stitch is locked).

It seems to me that somebody has placed a piece of leather on the puck that lifts the adjuster, that lifts the pressor foot. Why is that there?

Patchers don't have a reverse lever. You use the butterfly thumb knobs to turn the foot in the direction you want it to feed, with the foot up and needle down, then continue sewing. Or, use the poor-man's reverse and spin the work 180 degrees for a couple of stitches.

Edited November 12, 2009 by Wizcrafts

[oldtimer]

WE HAVE STITCHES!!!!!!!!!!

apparently clockwise on the wheel works better

ok, so the foot isnt traveling very far on the uptake... thus, not advancing the material...

i know that the stitch regulator bracket can be changed... improving how much the foot swings forward/back (decreasing stitches per inch)

but what controls how high the foot comes up to clear the material in order to allow for that swing forward/back??

also, does the machine stitch in reverse (ie turn the wheel the other way) or, do you just utilize the 360 degree rotating foot to back-tack?

THANK YOU TO ALL!!!

Congrats Ginny!

Never ever turn the wheel counter clockwise !

Happy sewing!

/ Knut

[ginny]

ok, its time for parts quiz time!! put your thinking caps on, and NO GUESSES!

please add/correct anything i have wrong/missing....

1. Thumb Screw - locks/loostens the foot (swings 360 degrees)

2. Tension Plates - FOR DARNING??

3. Tension Plates (upper) - using this one, knob adjusts tension on upper thread

4. Take up lever adjustment

5. Presser foot drop down

6. Stitch length regulator - the lower the bracket, the longer the stitch? (at lowest setting now, still getting 10-12 stitches per inch... too tight!)

7. Leather 'washer' over 'puck' - unsure of why this is here, but machine will not work without it. 'puck' doesnt raise enough without it to reach the bar to move the foot

8. Wing nut - adjusts the lift of the foot?

9. ??? does this adjust the pressure of the foot onto the material? (i am getting pressure foot marks on the material, its pushing down too hard)

THANKS!!!