Ceramic Blades Vs. Others

[swivelsphinx]

Hi There!

I've been curious to know if anyone has experience carving with ceramic bladed swivel knives vs. other popular types. I own the "cheapie standards" that Tandy and Hidecrafters sell, an old Rubyat, and several better-than average steel blades. I find the "cheapies" easiest to put an edge on, but admit that I dislike sharpening my blades because I am not comfortable with a technique yet. I am interested in how those ceramic blades might perform for non-traditional carving work.

[dirtclod]

I bought one several yars ago and i hate it. It never was sharp and i belive you could strop it all day ever day and it wouldn't help. My vote is save ya money and get a good steel blade or a good knife and blade togeather. Other folks might of had better luck them than me.

[King's X]

If you want, I pay the postage and you can just ship that ceramic blade over to me. I have re-beveled the angle on my two ceramic blades and taken them up to 4000 grit. I strop them usually one or twice and they go all night long. Now, I will say for some reason, I switch between my steel blades and my ceramics? I guess, like a good father, I want to give all of my swivel knifes enough visitation. Just kidding....it just depends for me on the feel when cutting.

Let me know.

[Storm]

Over the years I have had a chance to use a wide variety of blades. I had one ceramic I used for years and loved it. Then I had purchased a newer one and found it to be junk. You could strop it till the cows come home and it just wouldn't work as I liked. I have since learned to be a lot better at hand sharpening a steel blade and correctly stroping same. My favorite blades now are the Al Stohlman steel blades. When it all comes together and the leather is cased the blade will really glide through the hide!

Here is a tip on stropping. First use a business card or my favorite a 3x5 index card. Then apply a liberal ammount of white jewelers rouge. I used a straight pull for stropping but now have found another way. Instead of just pulling it straight toward yourself I strop in an tight wavely line while bringing the blade toward myself. Keeping in mind that my first finger rests on the top of the blade so as to keep it flat on the surface. Two strokes on one side and two on the other. The reason for the card stock is that you do not have the tendency to gently rock the blade back and forth. This messes up your edges. For years I used a polished oak wood strop with and 8oz. strip of leather glued to it. I find now that I get a nicer smoother edge using the card stock on a hard surface. However I might take advantage of King's X's offer to sending him my current blade and see what magic he can perform. Always try to leave your options open.

Storm

Edited January 12, 2010 by Storm

[rickeyfro]

Over the years I have had a chance to use a wide variety of blades. I had one ceramic I used for years and loved it. Then I had purchased a newer one and found it to be junk. You could strop it till the cows come home and it just wouldn't work as I liked. I have since learned to be a lot better at hand sharpening a steel blade and correctly stroping same. My favorite blades now are the Al Stohlman steel blades. When it all comes together and the leather is cased the blade will really glide through the hide!

Here is a tip on stropping. First use a business card or my favorite a 3x5 index card. Then apply a liberal ammount of white jewelers rouge. I used a straight pull for stropping but now have found another way. Instead of just pulling it straight toward yourself I strop in an tight wavely line while bringing the blade toward myself. Keeping in mind that my first finger rests on the top of the blade so as to keep it flat on the surface. Two strokes on one side and two on the other. The reason for the card stock is that you do not have the tendency to gently rock the blade back and forth. This messes up your edges. For years I used a polished oak wood strop with and 8oz. strip of leather glued to it. I find now that I get a nicer smoother edge using the card stock on a hard surface. However I might take advantage of King's X's offer to sending him my current blade and see what magic he can perform. Always try to leave your options open.

Storm

Storm, I didnt see anything in Kings post about returning that blade!!!!

[pete]

Interesting!

I too have 2 ceramics. One I've had for who knows how long, and the other probably 2-3 years. The Old one has an "OLD" color to it, like and old piece of marble- a little yellow and almost a translucent look to it.

. Cuts as smoothly as anything I've ever tried. The new one looks more like a white shiny false tooth. Doesn't cut as well and needs stropping.

I just viewed and passed on the Jerimiah Watt video. He uses a steel blade but it is really thin. I have searched the internet and have found that a LOT of sheridan carvers use a really thin knife.

I mention this because if there is anything that I would change about the ceramic it would be to make it thinner but due to the ceramic itself, I don't think that they can do it without making it too easy to break.

I don't use metal blades because it is too easy to undercut my corners- even with a hollow ground blade. I would need to practice more but I have never undercut my pattern with the ceramic.

pete

[swivelsphinx]

I bought one several yars ago and i hate it. It never was sharp and i belive you could strop it all day ever day and it wouldn't help. My vote is save ya money and get a good steel blade or a good knife and blade togeather. Other folks might of had better luck them than me.

Thanks for the comment dirtclod! I was looking at ads for ceramic sw. knife blade this morning, and most of them claim that the ceramics "only need stropping" rather than sharpening. Sounds like the one you got diddn't live up to that claim at all! Maybe it was not properly edged to begin with.

[wildrose]

I'm lousy at sharpening, which is why I use a ceramic blade. Strop it a little and it's great. I did have a student chip the tip off one once, but other than that I find I prefer them over the steel. I do keep steel blades and low end knives for beginner classes.

[King's X]

Rickyfro was right....I will accept any ceramic blades that nobody wants... Now, my what would be tandy's filigree blade (angle) ceramic blade can be thinned down. You would have to get pretty aggressive with it at the beginning. I had taken a Stohlman steel blade that I bought off eBay that was jacked up and thinned it out. Now I use that one for tap offs since I like a thin marking line.

Good luck.

[hidepounder]

This is a subject that keeps coming up every few months or so. A search would turn up a lot of information. I don't use ceramic or Rubyat blades because I've learned to sharpen my steel blades, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with using ceramics as long as you can keep from ruining them. IMHO most ceramic blades need to sharpened and are not ready to go right out of the box. Sharpening them is difficult and usually requires the use of expensive equipment. Additionally ceramics are not available in nearly the sizes, shapes or thicknesses that steel blades are and I need a variety for different cutting requirements. I think the appeal of ceramics is that they require sharpening less often than steel. I also think that in many cases the user has probably never really experienced how well a trully sharp steel blade can cut. When my steel blade gets dull I can easily resharpen it and I don't have to worry about ruining it or spending the time and money required to maintain a ceramic blade. I'm just too ham handed to spend the money on a blade that will be ruined so easily.

I remember when the Rubyat blades first came out....I just had to have one (then two, then three) and they were expensive but I told myself that it was worth the money because they cut so well. Then I learned how to sharpen my steel blades because all the pros that I was trying to emmulate just laughed at me for using the Rubyat blades. What I discovered was that the Rubyat blades were not sharp at all!....I just hadn't known what sharp really was!.

So for the money I'm sticking with steel!

Bobby

[DonnieBlaze]

i use both i use the ceramic when i want good fine detail and i use steel for general carving

[Rawhide]

I have to agree with Bobby (hidepounder) here. I prefer my metal blades. However, if you are to use a ceramic, you've got to tune it up. If you look at the bevel of a ceramic blade under a magnifying glass, you'll see the grind serrations from the factory. You need to polish all that away using varying grits of sand paper. I think the last time I cleaned one up I used 400 grit to start with and worked it perpendicular to the edge. (in other words side to side motion with the egde of the blade pointed away from you.) Work with the 400 grit until all the lines you saw when you first looked at it disappear. Then move up to 600, 800, 1200, and 2000 grit papers. Now strop it like normal pulling it away from the edge at the proper angle. It should cut like never before. This will be a lot of work, and could take you a while to complete. Maybe a half an hour to an hour depending on how good/bad the blade is.Marlon.

[King's X]

Hmmm....Interesting.

[rcsaddles]

Thanks for all the good info here. I will have to tune up my ceramic blade. Now what about teh ruby blades? Can they be sharpened also? I have two but one has the very tip broken off. Any way to reshape it or any thoughts on getting the ruby replaced? I'm considering taking it to a jeweler to see what it would cost to replace.

[Rawhide]

Thanks for all the good info here. I will have to tune up my ceramic blade. Now what about teh ruby blades? Can they be sharpened also? I have two but one has the very tip broken off. Any way to reshape it or any thoughts on getting the ruby replaced? I'm considering taking it to a jeweler to see what it would cost to replace.

Any jeweler should be able to replace it, provided you had one to replace it with. A good jeweler may be able to grind a shape to a cultured ruby to fit your needs, but I'd look into getting a jeweler to regrind the broken tip if it's not too bad.

[Denise]

I think Troy West knows about sharpening ruby blades.

[JLSleather]

That's a lot of stuff about blades. I can't say much about the ceramics, because I don't own one. Buddy had one and let me try it, but I wasn't impressed one way or the other. But, I've had steel blades last for years. Couple of swipes across a fine stone every so often. Was it Newton .... what doesn't start to dull won't continue to dull... something like that. Plus, I'm a tool maker, so I'm used to sharpening things. Didn't count, but doing the math I'd say that cheap (a few bucks) steel blade was good for 1200 hours of cutting (10 hours a day for a year, swivel knife in my hand a little under half the time). Yep, steel for me.

Oh, and no "hollow ground" blades. Too wide a path for detail.

Edited January 16, 2010 by JLSleather

[JohnD]

I needed a filigree blade, so I picked up both a Tandy steel and a ceramic blade on Saturday. When I got home, I spent some time polishing each one, as Marlon talks about in his post. I have never used a ceramic blade (or a filigree blade for that matter) before, but I have to say that after trying both new, freshly polished blades for the past three days, I think the ceramic cuts much easier and smoother than the Tandy steel blade at least.

The blade I have been using most frequently, lately, is a 1/2" hollow ground Barry King steel blade. Just my $.02.

John

[hidepounder]

I needed a filigree blade, so I picked up both a Tandy steel and a ceramic blade on Saturday. When I got home, I spent some time polishing each one, as Marlon talks about in his post. I have never used a ceramic blade (or a filigree blade for that matter) before, but I have to say that after trying both new, freshly polished blades for the past three days, I think the ceramic cuts much easier and smoother than the Tandy steel blade at least.

The blade I have been using most frequently, lately, is a 1/2" hollow ground Barry King steel blade. Just my $.02.

John

John that does not surprise me at all. I think a lot of folks pick up a ceramic and like the way it cuts. My only objection is two fold. They are too fragile for my taste and they only come in about two sizes. The most important thing in selecting a blade is getting one that works for you......nothing else matters!

Bobby

[JohnD]

I agree, bob

[grammyd]

Is there anyway to sharpen a ceramic blade? Will someone please share. I strop it all the time but just can't get it really sharp.

[terrahyd]

Doris;;

check with Kings X,,bet he can help you find help

[grammyd]

If you want, I pay the postage and you can just ship that ceramic blade over to me. I have re-beveled the angle on my two ceramic blades and taken them up to 4000 grit. I strop them usually one or twice and they go all night long. Now, I will say for some reason, I switch between my steel blades and my ceramics? I guess, like a good father, I want to give all of my swivel knifes enough visitation. Just kidding....it just depends for me on the feel when cutting.

Let me know.

What did you have to use to re-bevel the blades before taking them up to 4000 grit. I really need to do this.

[hidepounder]

Ceramic blades can be sharpened but it takes some very expensive equipment to do a proper job. The problem is preventing the edge from failing during sharpening process. In spite of what many think....ceramic does corrode also, however it is effected differently that steel. When ceramic corrodes due to exposure to residual acids in leather, the suface of the ceramic begins to flake off creating a rough uneven surface. Where stopping removes the crystaline build up on steel blades due to corrosion, stropping a ceramic blade is less effective because there is no crystaline structure to remove by stropping. I know Troy West successfully sharpens his ceramics using his GRS sharpening system. I have also heard that it is possible to sharpen ceramics using some diamond impregnated sharpening steels and aluminum oxide paper, but I have no first hand experience with either.

Hope htis helps...

Bobby

[mendedbowl]

Bob (hidepounder),

i admire your work and respect your experience. can you please explain your technique for sharpening your swivel knife blades to make them really sharp?

you also mentioned earlier that you like different size blades for different applications. can you explain more about how you select a blade size for a project?

thanks for any help.

ken