Duty belts

[mdmorgan]

I have had several co-workers express interest in having me make them new duty belts. The problem is that they have to be basket weave. Is there a way to do this without spending a grand on an embossing machine, or spending a week hand stamping it? Or, is there somebody that I could buy 2.25 inch strips of leather already embossed? All I can find is 1.5 inch. Any ideas would be great! thanks!

[Lobo]

I have been doing basketweave tooling for about 35 years, off and on as demand comes and goes. To perform basketweave tooling requires exactly two tools; the basketweave stamp, and a border stamp. The process involves some extensive practice on scrap pieces, after which all that is required is a close attention to detail, a good eye, and a little bit of patience.

I can do a common holster pattern in about 10 minutes. Belts take a little more time, perhaps 15 or 20 minutes, but the extended straight lines of a belt make it much easier to perform the work (while also providing many more opportunities for mistakes).

Pre-embossed belt blanks suffer from a number of problems, not the least of which is the lack of a completed pattern and border at each end. This readily identifies the finished product as "machine-produced" as opposed to any sort of hand work. It is possible that someone is providing embossed blanks in 2.25" duty belt width, but I don't know who it might be.

If you intend to line your belts, or produce two-layer belts, you should be aware that the tooling process always results in some "growth" of the tooled area, as the impressions will cause the leather to expand at each tooling point. So, while you may start with a belt blank of 2.25" width and a specific length, by the time the tooling is completed both the width and the length will be changed measurably. Tooling must be done prior to assembly of lined or two-layer belts, and the process can be very frustrating for those who have no experience with this.

So, getting into the business of basketweave-tooled gear requires little in the way of cash investment, actually producing basketweave-tooled gear requires more than a little bit of practice and experience to achieve an acceptable result.

Unless you are prepared to expend a fair amount of time and effort to master the skills involved, I would suggest that you consider contracting such work out to a craftsman who has already put in the time and effort to be able to produce the desired results.

Best regards.

[mdmorgan]

I have been doing basketweave tooling for about 35 years, off and on as demand comes and goes. To perform basketweave tooling requires exactly two tools; the basketweave stamp, and a border stamp. The process involves some extensive practice on scrap pieces, after which all that is required is a close attention to detail, a good eye, and a little bit of patience.

I can do a common holster pattern in about 10 minutes. Belts take a little more time, perhaps 15 or 20 minutes, but the extended straight lines of a belt make it much easier to perform the work (while also providing many more opportunities for mistakes).

Pre-embossed belt blanks suffer from a number of problems, not the least of which is the lack of a completed pattern and border at each end. This readily identifies the finished product as "machine-produced" as opposed to any sort of hand work. It is possible that someone is providing embossed blanks in 2.25" duty belt width, but I don't know who it might be.

If you intend to line your belts, or produce two-layer belts, you should be aware that the tooling process always results in some "growth" of the tooled area, as the impressions will cause the leather to expand at each tooling point. So, while you may start with a belt blank of 2.25" width and a specific length, by the time the tooling is completed both the width and the length will be changed measurably. Tooling must be done prior to assembly of lined or two-layer belts, and the process can be very frustrating for those who have no experience with this.

So, getting into the business of basketweave-tooled gear requires little in the way of cash investment, actually producing basketweave-tooled gear requires more than a little bit of practice and experience to achieve an acceptable result.

Unless you are prepared to expend a fair amount of time and effort to master the skills involved, I would suggest that you consider contracting such work out to a craftsman who has already put in the time and effort to be able to produce the desired results.

Best regards.

Thanks. I have done a little of it on small items. I want to learn, but I figured it would take hours and hours of stamping. If I can get it down to maybe an hour that would be great. I have noticed the "growth" that comes with stamping. What do you do? stamp the top layer, glue it to the correct size bottom layer and cut of the excess? Also I have found that my tandy stamps are not very good, what would you recomend I use?

Thanks for all your input.

[Mike Craw]

Hey md!

I'll throw my two cents worth in here. If you're going to do quality work, we have two tool makers who are members of this site. Lonnie Height took over Hackbarth when Ellis Barnes passed away last year, and Barry King, who is Don King's grandson and who apparently inherited his tool making ability. Both men make outstanding basket stamps in several sizes and it would probably be a good plan for the long term to have a range of sizes.

Hope this helps.

Mike

P.S. Didn't mean to leave out Robert Beard's tools, but I believe there is a significant wait for them.

[mdmorgan]

Hey md!

I'll throw my two cents worth in here. If you're going to do quality work, we have two tool makers who are members of this site. Lonnie Height took over Hackbarth when Ellis Barnes passed away last year, and Barry King, who is Don King's grandson and who apparently inherited his tool making ability. Both men make outstanding basket stamps in several sizes and it would probably be a good plan for the long term to have a range of sizes.

Hope this helps.

Mike

P.S. Didn't mean to leave out Robert Beard's tools, but I believe there is a significant wait for them.

Thanks! I will look into it.

[Randy Cornelius]

To solve one of the problems mentioned above about the expanding of the leather. You can do the following. On the flesh side put one or two layers of 3-M packing tape to the flesh side. The 3-M is the best and will hold very good while stamping and will not allow the leather to warp, stretch or any thing else while you tool. The tape will come off with some effort after you are done. but let the leather dry before you remove the tape. I make quite a few duty belts for Law Enforcement officers as I am one myself. The belt should be about 12 oz with a 2-3 oz linning. These belts have to hold up about 30-40 lbs of equipment. Also dont scrimp on the billets that hold the buckle and the holes for attaching. It's is my experiance that an officer will think he can sintch up his 38" waist into a 34" belt and then the holes give out with the weight and extra tightness. I always line the billits also and do a figure 8 stitch around the holes to give added support. Have not had one pull out yet.

As far as the time to basket stamp a 2 1/4 inch belt you should be able with some practice do 12" or more every 15-30 minutes or so. But it depends on a lot of factors.

One other thing is that Wickett & Craig sells english bridle in black double shoulders that is very good for making duty belts.

Good luck

Randy

Edited January 22, 2010 by Randy Cornelius

[mdmorgan]

To solve one of the problems mentioned above about the expanding of the leather. You can do the following. On the flesh side put one or two layers of 3-M packing tape to the flesh side. The 3-M is the best and will hold very good while stamping and will not allow the leather to warp, stretch or any thing else while you tool. The tape will come off with some effort after you are done. but let the leather dry before you remove the tape. I make quite a few duty belts for Law Enforcement officers as I am one myself. The belt should be about 12 oz with a 2-3 oz linning. These belts have to hold up about 30-40 lbs of equipment. Also dont scrimp on the billets that hold the buckle and the holes for attaching. It's is my experiance that an officer will think he can sintch up his 38" waist into a 34" belt and then the holes give out with the weight and extra tightness. I always line the billits also and do a figure 8 stitch around the holes to give added support. Have not had one pull out yet.

As far as the time to basket stamp a 2 1/4 inch belt you should be able with some practice do 12" or more every 15-30 minutes or so. But it depends on a lot of factors.

One other thing is that Wickett & Craig sells english bridle in black double shoulders that is very good for making duty belts.

Good luck

Randy

Thanks for the tips. I was thinking of using two layers of 8 oz. What is the advantadge of using a heavy front with a light liner? How does that wickett & craig bridle case and stamp?