A Business Question (Poll) For Full Time Holster Makers / Leather Workers

[BigRiverLeather]

I'm at a crossroads in my life (aren't we all that are in our mid 40's?) and looking for a job change. I've been doing custom holster work for about a year and really enjoy it, though I am spending most of my free time when not at my real job working leather. I am trying to decide if I should just be looking for a different job in my same field (heavy construction equipment sales) or jump into the leather business full time. I had worked myself up to a comfortable income (close to 6 figures) until the combination of the economy falling and the pay cuts dished out by my ungrateful to his top salesman / still jetsetting employer have brought me to about a 50-60K year level, for now.

I know asking someone what their income is can be a personal question so I am going to put it out in a poll. The question is more in regards to annual sales volume rather than what you put in your pocket. I can do the math from there on what I could expect.

I believe that efficiency would be key to use it as a full time business venture that would generate the income that I require which is by no means posh (my newest vehicle is a '98 escort, my boat is a rotten 1984 Bayliner, my truck has 300K on it - you get the picture)

If you would like to offer more information that might be be helpful I would appreciate it, like how many units etc, you estimated annual expenses, targeted profit margin.

I'm hoping to put together a business plan if I decide to take this further.

Thanks,

Scott

[particle]

Okay - I'm not a full-time holster maker, but I am in a situation like you. My wife and I were expecting our 3rd baby last year, and we wanted her to be able to stay home with the baby. My new job gives out bonuses twice a year, which we were hoping would cover a good portion of her lost income. Bonus aren't happening due to the economy, but I'm just lucky to have a job so I'm not complaining (yet...). I would love to get out of the rat-race and do my own thing, thus I started pursuing holster making. I still have an 8-5, so I'm limited in my capabilities - like most of us.

I'm gonna go with $10,000-30,000 as a number that's easy to achieve. That's PURELY a forecast. So far I've gotten 16 orders for March, and we're only half-way through with the month. Let's assume I can carry that forward for at least 32 orders for March.

32 orders a month times an average price of $80 per holster = $2,560 per month

$2,560 * 12 months = $30,720

Fortunately my wife is starting to take an interest in my holsters and has expressed a (mild) desire to help with production. 32 orders a month isn't a lot. It equates to about 7 a week. But, at about 2 hours of cumulative time per holster, it's hard to produce much more than that while holding down a day job and spending time with the wife/kids...

If I recall from past conversations and inferences, some guys here are cranking out 30+ holsters a week. At an average price of $70, that's well over $100k/yr. Based on the overwhelming backlog of holster makers, I don't think that's an unrealistic number and one I REALLY hope to achieve! Insurance ain't cheap, so I'll have to go well above my current income just to bring home the same amount of bacon.

But I can make holsters anywhere, and I'd really like it to be on a nice plot of land with a 1,000 yard rifle range off my back porch...

After all that, I'm sorry, but I doubt I've provided anything valuable...

[RMB Custom Leather]

Okay - I'm not a full-time holster maker, but I am in a situation like you. My wife and I were expecting our 3rd baby last year, and we wanted her to be able to stay home with the baby. My new job gives out bonuses twice a year, which we were hoping would cover a good portion of her lost income. Bonus aren't happening due to the economy, but I'm just lucky to have a job so I'm not complaining (yet...). I would love to get out of the rat-race and do my own thing, thus I started pursuing holster making. I still have an 8-5, so I'm limited in my capabilities - like most of us.

I'm gonna go with $10,000-30,000 as a number that's easy to achieve. That's PURELY a forecast. So far I've gotten 16 orders for March, and we're only half-way through with the month. Let's assume I can carry that forward for at least 32 orders for March.

32 orders a month times an average price of $80 per holster = $2,560 per month

$2,560 * 12 months = $30,720

Fortunately my wife is starting to take an interest in my holsters and has expressed a (mild) desire to help with production. 32 orders a month isn't a lot. It equates to about 7 a week. But, at about 2 hours of cumulative time per holster, it's hard to produce much more than that while holding down a day job and spending time with the wife/kids...

If I recall from past conversations and inferences, some guys here are cranking out 30+ holsters a week. At an average price of $70, that's well over $100k/yr. Based on the overwhelming backlog of holster makers, I don't think that's an unrealistic number and one I REALLY hope to achieve! Insurance ain't cheap, so I'll have to go well above my current income just to bring home the same amount of bacon.

But I can make holsters anywhere, and I'd really like it to be on a nice plot of land with a 1,000 yard rifle range off my back porch...

After all that, I'm sorry, but I doubt I've provided anything valuable...

Just wondering what kinda of advertising you do if any or is it all word of mouth. If you do advertise about how much do you spend on that.

[BigRiverLeather]

That is pretty good particle that you have about an order a day for part time work. I get about an order a week which is really all I can handle. I'm still hand stitiching so that is taking some time. I'm completing orders from December now which is much further behind than I wanted to ever get. I hope to ship 3 after this weekend. My only advertising is posting on a gun forum,. not even in the classifieds, just once in a while when someone asks about a type of holster as well as being a regular contributor. If I advertised in the classifieds I'd get unbelieveably backed up.

A boss is in my future, but I'm not going to borrow or put it on a credit card. I have a customer (from my day job) who ordered a holster and he owns a steel fabrication business. He said he cut cut out my patterns in either his press, laser or waterjet cutters.

Do you mind telling what type of advertising you are doing or how you are getting your business?

[ps0303]

I would never want to tell someone to quit their day job especially when you make a decent chunk of change. One thing to consider maybe would be two part time jobs to initially make your income mark until your holster business picks up. So you have your part time holster business then find something else part time to fill in the gap. Hours would be flexible enough so that you could work more on the holsters and be able to turn out the numbers you need. I am considering this myself. It's just hard pulling the trigger and doing it but as each day and week go by I am getting closer to doing it. A great example if you could handle it, don't laugh, would be a school bus driver. Morning and afternoon hours, holidays off, and summer gives you plenty of time. Heck I think you can even collect unemployment during the summer when you are not working. For me I am considering a job as a personal trainer, I love working out, and making holsters.

It's tough for me as I have a son that is heading to college this summer. They grow up fast. I just hit mid 40's at the beginning of the month and have a decent full time job but the company is becoming more and more demanding of my time with no increase of pay for the past two years. Yes I should be grateful I still have a job but they turn a decent profit but find stupid reasons for not giving pay increases. A buddy of mine at this job didn't get a pay raise last year because he had six sick days in one year. The rich get richer!

As for advertising, I don't do any and it shows in my business plus I am still rather green at this craft. Free is always the best. Gun forums are a great place as you can show case what you make for that particular model, Craig's List is another free one, and obviously word of mouth. Also, dont' stop at holsters if that is all you are making at the moment. Belts are also a huge factor in holsters especially double layer ones.

Sewing by hand does take time but has a great look yet time consuming. Consider a machine if you have the change and can still afford it. I splurged and bought new, Cobra. I love it.

Just my .02 cents.

[Denster]

I would strongly suggest keeping your day job and using holster making as a part time business at least for a couple of years. Plan how much time you can dedicate to it every week. Something like 2 hours a night weekdays and one full day on the weekend would equal 18 hours which equates to, depending on your working time, 10 to 16 holsters per week this should equal a net profit, depending on your selling venue, of $400 to $640/week. Get a sales tax ID number to establish yourself as a business. Now you can buy at wholesale and you are an established business and can take advantage of the tax deductions for a home based business, assuming you are working at home, and can deduct a percentage of your homes expenses ie: utilities, mortgage or rent, maintenance, vehicle expenses etc. Hire an accountant to do your taxes and to consult on various deductions. Mine costs me about $300/year and it is the best money I spend all year.

As to selling venues. eBay with fixed price listings will sell everything you can make at a cost of about 15% of the gross for eBay and paypal fees and you can make what you feel like making not what someone else feels you should make. Keep it simple at first just a couple of styles for 4 or 5 popular guns. There are other selling venues such as blogging the gun sites and establishing your own website but these are likely to weigh you down with more orders than you can fill and people will keep after you to make things you might not yet feel comfortable with making. Resist the urge to offer lots of options and doing lots of custom work and taking advances for work to be completed this has sunk a lot of good holstermakers.

Get a sewing machine, repeat get a sewing machine, it will pay for itself in a couple of months. A Boss is good and you may never need anything more a Cobra is also good but it will not gain you much speed it is more convenient on some holster types due to the throat depth but they can all be done on the Boss.

After a couple of years you can decide if you have the skill and ability and attitude for a full time business. You will have gained exposure and have a substantial cllient list to advertise to if you wish. You will also have the opportunity to see if this phenomena of an increased market for custom holsters is growing or slacking off.

Just a few thoughts for what they are worth.

[Luke Hatley]

KEEP YOUR DAY JOB.........I DID.... THE BENEFITS ARE GREAT....

LEATHER WORKING ON A PART TIME BASIC HAS BEEN GREAT FOR ME.

[particle]

Do you mind telling what type of advertising you are doing or how you are getting your business?

The only advertising I do is posting on message boards, and putting my website in my signature on those boards. I post pictures of my completed holsters here for critique, but I've had at least one person here refer one of their friends to me. The other boards (my state's big CHL board and the 1911 forum) have had the biggest impact. I was getting maybe 2 orders a week. Then someone posted a review of my holster on the 1911 board, and I got 8 or 9 new orders in one day. One of those orders told me in the comment box I was also being talked about on a concealed carry forum. Viral Marketing. It's a powerful thing.

I also posted an overview video of me making the Avenger style holster on YouTube. It hasn't gotten a whole lot of views - 400 something - but it certainly helps spread the word.

As I get some of these new orders complete, my hope is that those people will also start posting images of my holsters and (hopefully) saying positive things about them on the forums. Those threads on the forums will be viewed for years down the road as people stumble across them on web searches.

I've tried to tell my parents the same thing - they need to be marketing their cabin the same way. I've put it in a couple signatures, linked to it on my site, promoted it on some boards, etc., but I don't think they really understand the value of Viral marketing. Before I linked to it in my sig/site, they were getting several days a week with zero views and most of their visits were coming from emails they sent out (according to Google Analytics). While effective, their target audience is "1" - the recipient of their email. I built their website with Joomla. Someone asked about Joomla sites on another board, and I posted my parent's site in my comment as an example site. So, not only do people searching for cabins find their site, but now people searching for Joomla find it too...

[Lobo]

Holster making was a very small part-time thing for me during my 24 years in law enforcement, and continuing that way for several more years. My market was limited to the people that I knew and worked with. Even at that, I developed good relationships with many people and continue to produce for some of my customers from over 30 years ago. I've also had a few stores stocking my products for several years.

The internet has opened up a world-wide market for anyone who chooses to pursue it. I hesitated for several years to put up a website, fearing that a time might come when volume of orders exceeded my ability to produce. I now use a website, but there is no ordering link. Each order is received by e-mail, and I tell each customer what to expect for production time prior to proceeding. I require payment prior to starting production because there are a few folks out there who will order something, then change their minds or find something else during the wait. I also offer a "no questions asked" return policy (any standard production item can be returned when received by the customer and found to be unsatisfactory, but only when returned in new, unused condition), and I provide a one year warranty for defects in materials or workmanship.

Some folks call me a "custom" maker, but in reality I run a small production shop. I offer several holster models with a few options within each product line. I do several "batches" of orders each week, each of about 8 to 12 items. I cut everything, then assemble everything, then sew everything, then fit everything, then finish everything in each batch. During the times required for drying between processes I start another batch. In this manner I am able to complete an average of more than 30 items per week, and I have finished as many as 42 items in a week's time (during which I was in the shop for about 28 hours, plus the daily times spent answering e-mail questions, responding to orders, packaging and shipping products, etc., so I am now working a full 40-plus hour week).

My kids are grown (as are 3 of my 9 grandchildren), my home is paid for, I don't owe anyone anything. I recently shut down another business which, though relatively profitable, required a great deal of travel. Now I can relax more, spend a few hours per day in the shop, and enjoy this time. The leather business has grown well beyond anything I ever expected. With 40 states now having "shall issue" concealed carry laws, millions of Americans are obtaining permits and carrying daily. The market is huge and the business continues to be very good for me.

I am now looking at doubling the size of my shop and (depending on what employer mandates might come out of Congress soon) I may hire some help. Ideally, an energetic and responsible person will turn up that I can put into a position of taking over the business in a few years when I decide to retire completely.

For your situation, I recommend staying small for the time being, build up a good part-time business, establish your reputation. There may well come a time when you can make the transition to a full-time operation. If so, that is fine. If not, you will have an ongoing stream of additional income and build many good relationships with other people.

For equipment needs, make your investments carefully. Good sewing equipment is essential, and will cut production time substantially, making your working time far more productive. A broad selection of dummy guns will help you expand your market, and dummies pay for themselves very quickly (so long as you don't invest in too many oddball pieces). I am also constantly adding more of the out-of-production handguns for which dummies are not available, and these have proven to be very good investments. Presses, clicker dies, and a lot of other things are expensive to acquire and can only be justified when you have a lot more production to do.

Wholesale orders can be good. Making a dozen identical, or very similar, items can be a very efficient use of time. If you can find dealers willing to stock (and pay for) your products (including some of the gun show dealers) you can develope a steady income stream. Consignments very seldom work out very well, and can be a dead loss very easily.

All the best.

[Denster]

Particle is right. Viral marketing is an exceptional tool and in a short period can garner you a huge amount of exposure. It has it's downside too if you tick someone off they can crucify you. By the way Eric that was DefensiveCarry forum where you received very positive exposure.

[BigRiverLeather]

As expected, rather so far, greater than I expected, there is a lot of good input here. You've reinforced my feelings that I have two things on my immediate horizon.

1 - I need to dedicate a day to complete my website.

2 - as much as I like the look of my saddle stitching, I believe I need to expedite the aquisition of a Boss.

[K-Man]

To put it politically correct - keep your day job. The reality of it is that the economy is in the toilet, and is going to stay there for some time.

Give up the notion that the BOSS hand stitcher is going to be satisfactory for any amount of holster making. That statement is based on my own personal experience of having had three of them - broke two of them beyond repair and sold the third off in frustration of it not doing the job. This was over a period of 18 months. A Cobra Class 3 machine (or similar) is going to do a hell of a lot better job and last you a whole lot longer. The difference in price between the two is negligible IMO. I've had my two Artisan 3000's for approximately five years and have made thousands of items with them, without hardly a blip on the radar screen with respect to any issues with them.

You have to decide what level of quality that you want to work at in this field. If you want to do "production" type work - meaning slapping two pieces of leather together with some variant of glue, stitch it, stick a gun it and run your finger around the shape of the gun, and call it a holster - then you can probably sell a bunch of them at a readily apparent low price. You're going to have to produce a bunch of them to get to your level of salary with your current job though. The vast majority of the customers today are looking for a holster that they can have now and for the lowest price. So there are those in this industry who strive to give them that very thing by doing exactly what I said just above.

How much experience do you have in running every detail of a business? Are you able to make decisions on your feet and not miss a beat? How much experience do you have dealing directly with rude and obnoxious customers? Can you tolerate people telling you that you don't know what you're talking about and tell you to go stick it in body orifices? How much knowledge and experience do you have with guns? I know quite a few holster makers who don't know squat about guns and try and pass themselves off as knowlegable in that respect. Doesn't take much to call them out.... How much of a salesman are you? What style(s) of holster are you going to make/offer? What about related accessories? How much do you know about design and how a holster and/or accessory SHOULD function? How much initiative do you have? How good are you at innovation? How much real time are you going to be able to devote to the making of the holsters? What's your level of integrity? Trust me, it makes a difference. How good are you at organization and detail? If you're lacking in any of these areas, you're going to have a very hard time selling one, let alone a bunch of, holster(s).

These are all things that you really need to consider IMO. Oftentimes people have this idealistic perception that running/having your own business is the cat's meow. It's not even close on most days. All of the things mentioned above are issues you have to deal with on nearly an every day basis, if you're successful at doing this business thing. Ultimately, you have to decide for yourself if you want to make the leap to making the leathercraft/holster making a full time gig.

Would I do it again, given the opportunity? Absolutely, but I'm of a personality type that is detail driven. We've had some great success in this industry - been on the cover of gun magazines on more than one occasion, pictured/featured in more than 30 articles in gun magazines, pictured in TIME (magazine) article and a number of daily newspapers, shipped holsters around the world, and sold literally thousands of holsters and related products. All of this has been done in less than 7 years time. So my comments above are based on my first hand, real life, experiences.

YMMV.

Edited March 14, 2010 by K-Man

[Shadowsbane]

I am in a very similar situation as you. Lost a bunch of work possibly thinking of getting into this as a full time endeavor in order to make up that lost income or in my case more.

The primary difference however, is that I am in much more of a pickle due to various reasons, and I grossed about 50 cents more an hour than Federal minimum wage last year. So, for me and mine, the expectations and hopes are far lower it would seem.

Even so, though I am doing as many here are suggesting for you, and keeping my day job at least for the time being. As well as offering more than just holsters to people in order to branch out a bit and get more steady business.

But, best of luck to you, and I know I will be watching the results of your thread closely.

[BigRiverLeather]

K-Man, I really appreciate your input.

Regarding most of your questions regarding difficult customers, business sense, integrity etc, I don't see any problem there. I've been in sales for 20 years and have seen all kinds and dealt with all kinds of problems. By no means do I have a level of experience with guns to qualify as a gunsmith, but when I am in a conversation with my peers regarding guns it is typical that I am far more knowledgeable than most of them, even though many of them consider themselves gun enthusiasts. I'm sure I could be "called out" by several people though, but am anxious to learn more.

I know that one of the biggest desires of buyers these days is fast turnround. Many understand that the quality rigs will take more time to get, but I also realize that one has to establish themselves as such an artisan. I believe that I fall more into that category. I may not yet provide the quality that some others do yet, but my products get better and better with experience. Nothing I do is rushed and every project I do I take proide in the finished product, both in fit nd finish as well as functionality. I'm inspired by many, some of my products resemble others, some are my own, some are combinations of others.

I really appreciate the input on the Boss. It looks like it would be worth the upgrade to a Toro or similar machine.

I wonder what the feasability of offering an express line for speed of delivery with functionality and a custom line for detailed custome work? I think Mitch Rosen does this.