New Wade Saddle Got Me Bucked Off All Weekend

[Huntet02]

Huntet

When you have a chance, put the saddle on her with no pad and run your hand under the bar all the way down her back. She looks to have a fair amount of rock in her back and if the bars don't have much rock, she could be bridging badly - contact only or mainly at the front and the back. If you put her on an uphill climb, those back bar tips could be digging into that rise she has in the loin area pretty hard depending on how they are shaped. That is enough pain to cause a lot of horses to buck. Everyone worries about the shoulders but those back bar tips can do a lot of damage too if they dig in. Is she sore anywhere if you put pressure down her back and in toward the spine? Especially check where the bar tips would be - front and back.

Comparing your two saddles - no, the cinch is not going to hang in the same place on these two, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Ok going to do this tonight but have questions first. When I run my hand under the bar all the way down her back under the saddle how am I know specifically IF the saddle doesn't have much rock?? Just by seeing if when she walks if the saddle is making contact with her back in all places?

[Huntet02]

There is a lot of speculation going on here without many facts. Doing the best I can here....The pictures of the horse are helpful, but we need to know the specs of the tree in the new saddle. Just spoke with Te___ saddle manager he said this saddle had Regular 6 3/4 width QH bars he gave me nothing else. Only asked the question of "Well did you ride the saddle already" I wanted to say "Here's your sign"

What are the bars and what are the dimensions of the bars? If you do not know, then contact with the maker will be necessary. The type of swell is of no consequence to fit on the horse. The fact that the horse is bucking is important, but what sort of bucking can indicate where the pain originated. Example: did she crow hop with head up, or put her head down and buck with rounded back? THe ride started out withe her trying to jut her head down and out NOT trying to get her head between her legs to buck like a bronc more jutting her head out and down to escape some sort of pain. All before the bucking started, she was jigging and jagging her head/neck never a steadied height terrible to handle, kept thinking she was just coming in heat or something thought I could get her to relax. When bucking occured we were starting our run up a fairly gradual yet sturdy clayhill. She went maybe 3 paces forward and I felt her jolting/bucking she never ever stopped while 20 folks waited on top of hill. I knew my pad had slipped back to far, she never got her head between her legs but I never got her turned good either she got me off balance on 4th jolt and lost my reins. AFter I hit the ground she was upset and it took 10 minutes to catch her. Ok just called my hubby he saw second buck said it looked like she just tucked her back legs underneath her and bounced her hind end up really hard never really kicked out real broncy like but this too was going uphill but really most of our day was spent doing up and downhill As Denise asked... are there any sore spots on the back? Using pressure with your fingers, you should be able to cause a reaction from pressure in certain spots, ie:withers, rear loin, or center. What is the horses' reaction? We pressured checked her with palms and fingers never finding anything in particular the day of...will check more tonight. There are certain reactions coupled with information from the saddle tree measurements that can tell us what the problem is and how to best address a fix.

Keith

Edited April 6, 2010 by Huntet02

[Huntet02]

Hard to tell by this picture, but; it looks like this horse is a well put up 1/4 horse type relatively wide, (my personal preferance). I suspect that you may be looking at the width of the gullet being too narrow and not fitting as Most of the others have pointed to. That Simco looks to be easily 7" to 71/2". Your new saddle needs to be similar in gullet width and angle, with a similar twist and rock. I would put the saddle on the horse with nothing but a piece of cotton sheet between the horse and the saddle to keep the saddle clean, and then lounge the horse for a couple of rounds so the saddle settles into the position it is going to migrate to. Then look it over real good, with a flash light between the bars up under the seat, under the rigging, under the bars all along the length the saddle and so on to see if it sits down flush without gaps between the bars along the length, also look to see if the bars are touching at the top the same as at the bottom of the bars. They should. Also, with the saddle now in position where it is going to ride, pay attention to where the rear cinch is. I could be too far rearward now and acting like a "bucking cinch". If you rig her up like a rodeo horse, expect her to be one. Of course this is all conjecture, we need you to take a bunch of pics , with and without the saddle and where it seems to fit correctly, and where you have been trying to put it, with and without a blanket and so on, and also tree specs. That will help one of the many really good horseman here to assist you in your problem. While I was writing this I see that Keith also chimed in. Like I said there are many really, really good horsmen here, the more information you can give the better help you will get.

Bondo I so appreciate everything and everyone on here I have printed all these tips and going to see trainer tonight to test all this. NOt sure of this trainers abilities but she said she thought she coudl help and she's fairly close.

Ok I finally figured out how to change font color so will quite bolding/underlining my replies

"Guess how I found you all"? I Googled "Wade cinch slipping backward causing horse to buck" or something similar and found information on Wade saddles and went from there.......Man upstairs was helping me find the saddle experts.

Bondo Bob

Edited April 6, 2010 by Huntet02

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

Huntet,

You are feeling with your hand between the horse and saddle subjectively to see if the pressure on your hand from the saddle is the same all the way down the bar. There may be no contact at all in the center if you have a really badly bridging saddle. Check with your hand under the front and back bar tips as well. Is there more pressure there? Then push down on the saddle while your fingers are under the bar tips. If you are feeling a lot of pressure there, so is she. The pressure should ease off gradually from under the saddle, not have a sharp edge that digs in. If you still have questions, then have someone walk the horse as you have your hand in the area you wonder about. The tree will have more and less pressure under different parts as they walk. The question is does it have too much at any point. Remember that what you are feeling is just the weight of the saddle. The pressure increases a lot with the rider.

Once you know where the bar edges and tips were resting on her during your ride, check for soreness in those areas specifically. Don't just push down on the muscles. That is only part of what may show you pain. Push sideways towards the spine and watch for her reactions. Normal muscle doesn't hurt even with a fair amount of pressure. She may wonder what you are doing but that reaction is different than "ouch!". You'll be able to tell.

Edited April 6, 2010 by Rod and Denise Nikkel

[Huntet02]

Huntet,

You are feeling with your hand between the horse and saddle subjectively to see if the pressure on your hand from the saddle is the same all the way down the bar. There may be no contact at all in the center if you have a really badly bridging saddle. Check with your hand under the front and back bar tips as well. Is there more pressure there? Then push down on the saddle while your fingers are under the bar tips. If you are feeling a lot of pressure there, so is she. The pressure should ease off gradually from under the saddle, not have a sharp edge that digs in. If you still have questions, then have someone walk the horse as you have your hand in the area you wonder about. The tree will have more and less pressure under different parts as they walk. The question is does it have too much at any point. Remember that what you are feeling is just the weight of the saddle. The pressure increases a lot with the rider.

Once you know where the bar edges and tips were resting on her during your ride, check for soreness in those areas specifically. Don't just push down on the muscles. That is only part of what may show you pain. Push sideways towards the spine and watch for her reactions. Normal muscle doesn't hurt even with a fair amount of pressure. She may wonder what you are doing but that reaction is different than "ouch!". You'll be able to tell.

Got it , I understand completely what to feel for. "Off topic" but we did find a pretty hardened corner where obviously something has been inserted on other side of saddle when made. Its underneath where wool is thinning possibly where left front concho/leather hardware would have been inserted. Feels like a rough edged thickness but could hurt if had thin pad on. We dont' think the mare felt this ever through the pad Ihad on her but what do I do about this esp. if I do have to go to a much thinner pad?

Edited April 6, 2010 by Huntet02

[kseidel]

Your horses' reactions sound somewhat as if she were being pinched in the wither area. Her reactions are violent enough that you should be able to re-create some of this response with your hands pinching her. Also as Denise has stated, the pressure needs to be towards the spine. Please try pinching her withers between your thumb and fingers. Direct your pressure down and in towards the spine, and pinch hard. Squeeze in this manner, moving over a fairly large area of the withers.... high, lower. forward, more back, around shoulder scapula, etc. There should be some noticeable reaction from the horse if this is where the pain is originating in the saddle. Pinching in some places in the wither area will almost always result in bucking to some degree. You can do some of this heavy pressure testing other places on the back, but they will not usually yield as dramatic results.

Another question... does the saddle have clearance in the gullet height when cinched in place? Is there still clearance with you sitting in the saddle? Check both front and back gullet (in front of the horn and behind the horn.) How about when moving? Many wade trees are made with lower clearances, and bumping on the top of the withers can sometime cause bucking.

Be patient with us, and I am sure we can pinpoint your problem.

Respectfully

Keith

[bruce johnson]

Under that area from your description, it might be the gullet liner wasn't skived very well on that side or a skirt plug isn't fit in there right. That can leave a ridge, and I've seen better than a $1395 Teskey that had one side skived and one not. If it is something you can feel on one side and not the other, that would be reason enough to send it back I'd think. If it is yours now, somebody will need to drop the skirts and see what is causing whatever you are feeling. As the wool packs, it will be a bigger problem.

[Huntet02]

Under that area from your description, it might be the gullet liner wasn't skived very well on that side or a skirt plug isn't fit in there right. That can leave a ridge, and I've seen better than a $1395 Teskey that had one side skived and one not. If it is something you can feel on one side and not the other, that would be reason enough to send it back I'd think. If it is yours now, somebody will need to drop the skirts and see what is causing whatever you are feeling. As the wool packs, it will be a bigger problem.

The guy at ___said I can send pictures but said I was not getting exaclty full price back for it although I never even asked...but he made the mistake of laughing when he said it.

Aren't you the one who earllier said I had "Mule Bars".......................

[Huntet02]

Under that area from your description, it might be the gullet liner wasn't skived very well on that side or a skirt plug isn't fit in there right. That can leave a ridge, and I've seen better than a $1395 Teskey that had one side skived and one not. If it is something you can feel on one side and not the other, that would be reason enough to send it back I'd think. If it is yours now, somebody will need to drop the skirts and see what is causing whatever you are feeling. As the wool packs, it will be a bigger problem.

checked it tonight you can definately feel something on the rifght side that wasn't finished right and guess were there the only dry spot on her back was tonight after her workout....same side. But I don't think Teskeys will still take it back because I still rode it the guy said if I rode it he couldn't pay me full price I paid. He said he would look at pictures of it and make me an offer I haven't sent him pictures but this thing not being right I feel should be fixed just wished I have noticed it before I rode it

[Huntet02]

Your horses' reactions sound somewhat as if she were being pinched in the wither area. Her reactions are violent enough that you should be able to re-create some of this response with your hands pinching her. Did all this pinching you wanted and pinched the withers hard no reaction that either of us noticed nothing....so don't think shes sore in withers. Also as Denise has stated, the pressure needs to be towards the spine. Please try pinching her withers between your thumb and fingers. Did this no reaction at all. Yes I did just as you said here..Direct your pressure down and in towards the spine, and pinch hard. Squeeze in this manner, moving over a fairly large area of the withers.... high, lower. forward, more back, around shoulder scapula, etc. There should be some noticeable reaction from the horse if this is where the pain is originating in the saddle. Pinching in some places in the wither area will almost always result in bucking to some degree. You can do some of this heavy pressure testing other places on the back, but they will not usually yield as dramatic results.

Another question... does the saddle have clearance in the gullet height when cinched in place? Is there still clearance with you sitting in the saddle?She has room said the trainer tonight... Check both front and back gullet (in front of the horn and behind the horn.) How about when moving? Many wade trees are made with lower clearances, and bumping on the top of the withers can sometime cause bucking. NOthing is bumping her withers it not made to low ...

Be patient with us, and I am sure we can pinpoint your problem.

Respectfully

Keith