New Wade Saddle Got Me Bucked Off All Weekend

[Sage]

Good Morning,

Lots of great minds and experience working with you!

As stated by Dr. Johnson and JW, pictures can be deceiving.

But I would bet a Fancy cup of coffee from those pictures that you have posted-- Rigging may also be contributing to your issues.

Post 32---- pictures tell me that the saddle rigging is not square from near side to off side.

If you take that plus the lump you have mentioned I can see why your horse is reacting that way on a incline.

Hope you can get things worked out. Sage

[Huntet02]

Huntet,

Interesting shape to that dry spot. In post #29 it looks to have a pretty straight line on the top of it. Most dry spots fade out more gradually. In trying to interpret what you've written, it sounds like the different piece makes a ridge too. Anytime there is assymmetry like that it can affect all sorts of things - pulling the saddle crooked on the horse etc. Who knows what they are feeling under there if it is twisted a bit? So whatever is different needs to be fixed for sure. That is a defect in the saddle.

We agree with Bruce that the saddle appears to be too far forward in a bunch of those pictures. Are any of the pictures with the saddle taken after your ride before you moved the saddle? Which ones? ok this pic is afer she was rode. Been working so hard at night haven't graciously replied to all things...

Sorry it doesn't show more uploading these pics tues night one at a time took more patience than I have in a week...lol

Here's another in my old saddle....how is this fit? is the saddle in correct place? No back cinch here since this yrling likes to chew it wont' wear one when ponying her.

Most bars are made so they fit right at the back edge of the shoulder blade, but in trying to see though the saddle to the horse it looks like the saddle is set up on top the shoulder blades in most of the photos. You say the bars aren't touching under the "swell rise". I am not sure what you are meaning there. Could you explain better?

Edited April 8, 2010 by Huntet02

[Huntet02]

Good Morning,

Lots of great minds and experience working with you!

As stated by Dr. Johnson and JW, pictures can be deceiving.

But I would bet a Fancy cup of coffee from those pictures that you have posted-- Rigging may also be contributing to your issues. Interesting so does this mean this rigging isn't going to work for my horse' build?

Post 32---- pictures tell me that the saddle rigging is not square from near side to off side.

If you take that plus the lump you have mentioned I can see why your horse is reacting that way on a incline.

Hope you can get things worked out. Sage

Everyone ~ wanted to sincerely thank all of you for your generous tips, suggestions and valuable time in trying to help me. You are a generous group of folks and I sincerely appreciate your help and expertise. Huntet

Edited April 8, 2010 by Huntet02

[Sage]

Everyone ~ wanted to sincerely thank all of you for your generous tips, suggestions and valuable time in trying to help me. You are a generous group of folks and I sincerely appreciate your help and expertise. Huntet

If your Rigging is truly Not square, your saddle will not work on any horse until corrected and made square.

Having a saddles rigging set square is a must!!! Sage

[kseidel]

Post 32---- pictures tell me that the saddle rigging is not square from near side to off side.

If you take that plus the lump you have mentioned I can see why your horse is reacting that way on a incline.

Sage,

While I fully agree with you that a rigging out of square will render the saddle unfit to ride, I fail to see any definitive evidence of this based on the pics in the post #32. There haven't been any pics that one can compare rigging placement from side to side effectively. You are correct that this may be a problem, but more critical inspection is required.

Respectfully,

Keith

[Denise]

Keith, Can you explain how you would check to see if rigging is symmetrical?

[kseidel]

Huntet32,

Well you have gotten a lot of people thinking about your situation! I was busy yesterday and returned this AM to 24 additional posts! Took me a while to catch up. Everyone is correct in placement of your saddle being too far forward. Cinch position does not dictate proper tree position in any way. The opposite is true in that when the tree sits where it is made to fit, the rigging position affects where the cinch is intended to hang by the saddlemaker. Having the cinch anywhere on the sternum is effective and acceptable. Your last pics indicate the saddle is still a bit far forward. The 3/4 +/- is better suited for horses with steeper shoulders, allowing a tree to sit farther forward without the cinch rubbing the elbow. Your horse is built for a 7/8ths to full rigging position, but the 3/4 will work just fine. You just need to be comfortable with the cinch placement farther back than you are used to.

Your horses' back is not hard to fit, despite what your trainer / friends may be telling you. In fact it is a fairly common and desirable back conformation.

The rear rigging is set quite far back on this particular saddle. When the saddle is in the proper position on your horse, the flank cinch may be too far back and into the flank area. If not too tight and the horse used to a rear cinch, that should not be the cause of her bucking.

The "lump" that you feel under the sheepskin on the right front corner is possibly caused from the saddle string not being set correctly, as well as the other possibilities mentioned. If it is the saddle string, it seems high enough and does not stick out far enough from the pics to cause a horse to buck. In any case, it is a manufacturers defect that they should be held responsible for, including shipping both ways.

So, the fact that your horse bucks with your new saddle still remains unsolved. We have eliminated a number of factors, but more possibilities still exist. You did not find any painful pressure points on her back, indicating that she is not over-reacting to pinching in the withers, or digging of the rear bar tips in her kidneys. We need to consider that there may be too much rock in the bars. Many horses exhibit poor behavior to too much pressure in the center of the back. (bucking is not the classic reaction, but possible. Head and neck reactions are indicators.) You stated that your pad had slipped prior to the bucking fit... had it slipped back far enough to allow the front of the saddle to be off of the pad and in direct contact with the horse? This would allow the front of the tree to sit lower than the rest and create additional pressure in the center.

Also, in trying to re-create the incident, what was the saddles original position? Was it set far forward over the shoulder blades as shown in some of your pics? If so, did it slide back several inches? This might have caused the cinch to bind and become uncomfortably tight. It also would pull the tree bars tight into the shoulder blades.

The amount of rock and twist and angle of tree bars, and the square of the rigging, and how much the tree moves on the horse, are difficult things to assess in pictures. But they are critical to the horses' comfort and performance. It is unfortunate that you do not have a qualified saddler in your area. That would simplify this process. If you keep supplying us with information, we may eventually get the problem solved.

Keith

[Traveller]

I once bought an older saddle that had lumps under where the strings were attached and my local saddle repair guy smoothed them off for me. Fortunately, he discovered them before I put the saddle on the horse, or the horse might have told me about them himself!

I don't know if that's the source of your problems but I do know that the underside of the saddle should be totally smooth.

After that, these guys know WAY more than I do!

Good luck,

Joanne

[Sage]

Mr. Seidel,

You are absolutely correct---the saddle being discussed needs to be physically inpected by a professional.

As I stated-- pictures can be deceiving. I would like to lose the bet for Huntets sake. (The more questions Huntet can ask the better chance of resolve.)

P.S

Mr. Seidel, I have enjoyed reading some of your posts and have applied some of those suggestions with success in producing a better looking saddle. Thankyou! Sage

[kseidel]

Keith, Can you explain how you would check to see if rigging is symmetrical?

It is difficult to determine the symmetry of a rigging even when it is being constructed, let alone after it is finished, without some pre- designed equipment. The rigging must be square to the horse and how the bars sit on the horse. Ideally one would set the saddle on a stand that has a center line determined to be centered through the tree's position, and then be able to square off of that center line. It can also be checked with a plumb bob and a specific point on the horn. This method is plagued with many potential errors mostly due to operator variable.

Many saddlemakers measure from points on the horn, bars, cantle, and swell, to check symmetry from one side to the other. The problem with this is that even the best trees are seldom perfect. If the horn or cantle or swell is slightly out of center or twisted from side to side, this throws off those calculations. Also thickness of rawhide can make one bar longer than the other. I have found these methods to be highly variable and unsatisfactory for consistent rigging symmetry. If you measure off of the skirts, they have to be exactly the same and again we are measuring from usually the tip of the bar which can be different from side to side.

The riggings need to be within 1/4" of the same position. More than 1/4" will cause the saddle to move and walk on the horses back. Most of the riggings that I have found to be out of square are 3/4" or more. The result is usually moving blankets and a sore horses' back. Bucking is not usually associated with riggings our of square.

Hope this helps answer this question.

Keith