Tooling 4-5 oz. leather?

[rookie]

I was wondering what I problems I might run into tooling the lighter ounce leather? Does anyone one have any suggestions or tips? I have only tooled the heavier ounce leathers.

[Hilly]

I would think the biggest problem would be stretch. Make sure and tape the back well, or RC it down. I think the second biggest thing would be not to cut too deeply with your swivel knife. Don't expect as much relief in your work as you would using thicker leather.

I've carved and tooled 4-5oz. with no problem. You just can't get as much relief as when you carve heavier leather.

[rookie]

I understand taping, not to clear on what RC means. Thank you for the help.

[Crystal]

I understand taping, not to clear on what RC means. Thank you for the help.

Hi Rookie - RC - rubber cement.

Crystal

[rookie]

Got it... Thanks, I was a little worried about trying the lighter ounce leather.

[Crystal]

Got it... Thanks, I was a little worried about trying the lighter ounce leather.

4-5oz is what I am learning on. (All I have.) You do need to be careful about getting too deep and going through it. I would imagine that you will need to do casing and rewetting a bit different than the heavier weights. (Guessing that not sure.)

Good luck! Let us see what you do!

Crystal

[skip]

I was used to heavy saddle skirting leather and did a checkbook cover of 4 oz and when I was done tooling I held it up to look at it in the light and realized that I had been using too much force and could see several spots where I had gone all the way through. you have to be really careful and check you work from both sides so you don't make the same mistake I made. good luck

[David Genadek]

Depth is an illussion created by the lines and how you shade them. If you can let go of the notion that you have to carve deep and focus on createing the illusion you will find thinner leathers offer a wonderful opportunity to create depth just in a different way. However,this same concept should also be used when carving heavy leathers.

David Genadek

[Cecil]

Depth is an illussion created by the lines and how you shade them. If you can let go of the notion that you have to carve deep and focus on createing the illusion you will find thinner leathers offer a wonderful opportunity to create depth just in a different way. However,this same concept should also be used when carving heavy leathers.

David Genadekillusioncreating

Is there a good reference that addresses how to create the illusion of depth? Specifically how you draw, carve, and tool the lines. The references I have seen don't address this from the aspect of carving and tooling except in general terms. The shading is addressed in the books and sections covering coloring and dying. Is there anything you should do during tooling, before coloring like burnishing, to influence the shading of the work?

Edited April 21, 2008 by Cecil

[David Genadek]

Is there a good reference that addresses how to create the illusion of depth? Specifically how you draw, carve, and tool the lines. The references I have seen don't address this from the aspect of carving and tooling except in general terms. The shading is addressed in the books and sections covering coloring and dying. Is there anything you should do during tooling, before coloring like burnishing, to influence the shading of the work?

Cecil,

Any drawing book would introduce you to the concepts. I would also say that Stohlman covers it in his books but it is interwoven in all the instruction. Take another look and you might see it now that you are looking for it. Peter Main and and Paul Burnett also have it inter woven in all their instruction. Go to Peters site and look at his work a lot of which is done on thin leathers. The big thing is to let go of your preconceptions and emotional attachments and just see what is actually there. Do the cuts vary in thickness or are they the same thickness through out? Do the lines radiate from a point or are they helter skelter? What is happening with the pear shadeing is it a single hit or does it start big and gradually taper down? Is the beveling all the same widthe or does it widen and narrow depending on where it is on line. Is anything on top of anything else? When things come together is it beveled so it looks like the beveling keeps going or does it abruptly stop? Just a few questions to ask.

David Genadek

[Cecil]

Cecil,

Any drawing book would introduce you to the concepts. I would also say that Stohlman covers it in his books but it is interwoven in all the instruction. Take another look and you might see it now that you are looking for it. Peter Main and and Paul Burnett also have it inter woven in all their instruction. Go to Peters site and look at his work a lot of which is done on thin leathers. The big thing is to let go of your preconceptions and emotional attachments and just see what is actually there. Do the cuts vary in thickness or are they the same thickness through out? Do the lines radiate from a point or are they helter skelter? What is happening with the pear shadeing is it a single hit or does it start big and gradually taper down? Is the beveling all the same widthe or does it widen and narrow depending on where it is on line. Is anything on top of anything else? When things come together is it beveled so it looks like the beveling keeps going or does it abruptly stop? Just a few questions to ask.

David Genadek

David:

Thank you for the feedback. I have many of Stohlman's books. This topic is like a subtle undertone and is not clearly identified except in a few places. You have given me a sense of what to look for when rereading his books. I will also folllow up with your other sugestions. Thanks again.

[SCOUTER]

Hey Rookie- When tooling very light leather you might want to Rubber Cement it to a piece of good semi-thick American made coated cardboard. That helps many times by "giving" a little to the tooling and giving you a little more relief. Also the rubber cement solvent will evaporate thru the top of the leather. It's ok it will dry off.

[Cecil]

Cecil,

Any drawing book would introduce you to the concepts. I would also say that Stohlman covers it in his books but it is interwoven in all the instruction. Take another look and you might see it now that you are looking for it. Peter Main and and Paul Burnett also have it inter woven in all their instruction. Go to Peters site and look at his work a lot of which is done on thin leathers. The big thing is to let go of your preconceptions and emotional attachments and just see what is actually there. Do the cuts vary in thickness or are they the same thickness through out? Do the lines radiate from a point or are they helter skelter? What is happening with the pear shadeing is it a single hit or does it start big and gradually taper down? Is the beveling all the same widthe or does it widen and narrow depending on where it is on line. Is anything on top of anything else? When things come together is it beveled so it looks like the beveling keeps going or does it abruptly stop? Just a few questions to ask.

David Genadek

David - After rereading Some of Al's material and some of my old drawing books, I think this can be summarized by saying the thinner the leather the more your work has to be like a drawing and rely more heavily on techniques derived from drawing. As you move into the heavier leathers you can still use this technique or have the option of increasing the depth of the cuts and the amount of sculpting you do as you tool the leather.

[David Genadek]

David - After rereading Some of Al's material and some of my old drawing books, I think this can be summarized by saying the thinner the leather the more your work has to be like a drawing and rely more heavily on techniques derived from drawing. As you move into the heavier leathers you can still use this technique or have the option of increasing the depth of the cuts and the amount of sculpting you do as you tool the leather.

Yes but never loose the drawing technique just use the added thickness to whatever advantage that you can. If you have a 1/8 inch stem over a leaf it makes no sense to cut it 1/4" deeep and bevel it to the max when all you need to do is establish a seperate visual plane in fact it will make it look clunky. The one place it really helps is on background, then creating deeply pronounced visual plane does add to the design. I guess I like to think in terms of visual planes and try to establish as many distinct visual planes as I can. On thinner leathers you can add a lot of depth with your under cut bevelers. I think the important thing to keep in mind is you are trying to create an illusion no matter what thickness the leather is.

David Genadek

[Cecil]

Yes but never loose the drawing technique just use the added thickness to whatever advantage that you can. If you have a 1/8 inch stem over a leaf it makes no sense to cut it 1/4" deeep and bevel it to the max when all you need to do is establish a seperate visual plane in fact it will make it look clunky. The one place it really helps is on background, then creating deeply pronounced visual plane does add to the design. I guess I like to think in terms of visual planes and try to establish as many distinct visual planes as I can. On thinner leathers you can add a lot of depth with your under cut bevelers. I think the important thing to keep in mind is you are trying to create an illusion no matter what thickness the leather is.

David Genadek

Thanks David, that helps a lot. Now the trick is applying it.

[cowpounder]

I was wondering what I problems I might run into tooling the lighter ounce leather? Does anyone one have any suggestions or tips? I have only tooled the heavier ounce leathers.

Here is one that nobody has comented on yet. Consider the leather is thinner so you need to use a flatter angel on your swivel knife Blade and a flatter angle on your bevelers! I believe that is what Peter Main does.

[Blake]

I carve a lot of 3 and 4 oz leather for boot tops, counters and vamps and I use the same swivel knife, blades and bevelers that I use on my saddles without any issues.

I do use a different weight maul or stamping stick depending on the weight of the leather. The lighter the leather , the lighter the stick.. I think texture(checkered, lined etc.)from your stamps are important on the lighter leathers and will add some dimension. I think knowing your tools and materials and the limits is what is important. You just need to work with it awhile until you get a good feel for it.

Blake

Edited November 30, 2008 by Blake

[steveh]

I carve a lot of 3 and 4 oz leather for boot tops, counters and vamps and I use the same swivel knife, blades and bevelers that I use on my saddles without any issues.

I do use a different weight maul or stamping stick depending on the weight of the leather. The lighter the leather , the lighter the stick.. I think texture(checkered, lined etc.)from your stamps are important on the lighter leathers and will add some dimension. I think knowing your tools and materials and the limits is what is important. You just need to work with it awhile until you get a good feel for it.

Blake

Very nice tooling on your boots, I like the two tone on the left photo. How did you achieve that?

Steve

[Blake]

Hi Steve

Thank You but.......

They aren't my boots nor am I the maker. I only do the requested tooling for different Boot Makers usually using their patterns or designs depending on what their customer requests.

The 3 tone effect is pretty simple, I dye the background put resist (NeatLac) on the flowers or other elements that I want to leave natural and then apply a liberal coat of brown heel and sole dressing (which is water base) and wipe off the excess. let it dry 24 hrs and apply a sealer so it won't bleed or fade if it gets wet. This works extremely well on books and albums too along with a host of other items.

Here is another sample that was just done but it hasn't been sealed yet . The sealer tends to even out the colors. I use different brands with about the same results but I stay away from the high gloss .

Blake

[steveh]

Hi Steve

Thank You but.......

They aren't my boots nor am I the maker. I only do the requested tooling for different Boot Makers usually using their patterns or designs depending on what their customer requests.

The 3 tone effect is pretty simple, I dye the background put resist (NeatLac) on the flowers or other elements that I want to leave natural and then apply a liberal coat of brown heel and sole dressing (which is water base) and wipe off the excess. let it dry 24 hrs and apply a sealer so it won't bleed or fade if it gets wet. This works extremely well on books and albums too along with a host of other items.

Here is another sample that was just done but it hasn't been sealed yet . The sealer tends to even out the colors. I use different brands with about the same results but I stay away from the high gloss .

Blake

Blake ,Thanks for the explanation on your coloring process, very nice work!

Steve

[Doug C]

Blake,

What kind or brand of sealer do you use? Your tooling looks great. I'm impressed.

Thanks,

Doug

[Blake]

Hi Doug

Thank you for the compliment.

I like Fiebings Leather Sheen which is a low gloss acrylic for the boots and then the maker will add something additional for his process and that is usually a wax base.

On books and other items I really like the Tan Kote but will also use NeatLac rubbed in deep with a woolskin if it is going to be used hard in the elements. Such as cell phone cases, log books etc.. I usually stay away from high gloss because in my humble opinion it takes away from the leather grain and gives an artificial look and as it wears off it leaves the leather uneven in color. The leather sheen will still allow conditioners and still looks natural when polished with shoe wax.

I use Tan Kote on my saddles.

Blake

[hidepounder]

Rookie,

Lots of good comments here....I want to add a few more. I used to tape everything when using lighter weight leather, but occasionally my tape would come loose a little and I would still get some stretching. I now put everything on 1/4" acrylic panels, even heavier weights like 9-10 oz. I cut several different sizes and shapes of acrylic to accomodate the kind of projects I typically do. I rubber cement my leather to the acrylic after casing my leather and it has worked vey well for me. I always line everything I tool so the residual cement on the back of my leather is not an issue for me. If you don't want residul glue, you can apply Barge to the acrylic only and press the piece to be tooled on while it is tacky.

The use of anything on the back of th leather to help "soften" the tooling does not work for me! I want as solid a backing as is possible so that I can get good clean, crisp tool impressions. Whenever I have a small scale, intricate tooling pattern, I reduce the thickness of the leather I tool on, for just that reason. I then will glue on a lining that will bring the thickness of the piece back to the appropriate size. I agree with David, depth is an illusion created by your design and is enhaced by the application of your tools.

I also agree with Blake, that using flatter bevelers, etc., is an option to consider when tooling lightweight leather, however, I want to add that the tools one selects to use, is dictated by the pattern. It's an issue of scale! If you'll notice, the pattern tooled by steveh on the boot tops is ornate, therefore he doesn't need to use "flat "tools in order to achieve the illusion of depth. On a broad, large pattern, the use of "flat" tools would probably enhance the illusion of depth. On the other hand, if you put very small, ornate pattern on 10-12 oz leather and cut as deep as the leather allows, the end result will be disasterous...again it's a matter of scale, dictated by the pattern.

Hope this makes some sense...if not...just ignore me.

........The 3 tone effect is pretty simple, I dye the background put resist (NeatLac) on the flowers or other elements that I want to leave natural and then apply a liberal coat of brown heel and sole dressing (which is water base) and wipe off the excess. let it dry 24 hrs and apply a sealer so it won't bleed or fade if it gets wet.........

Steve,

Is there a specific brand of Heel & Sole dressing you like to use best?

Bob

Edited December 1, 2008 by hidepounder

[Blake]

Hello Bob

I use the Fiebings as it seems to always be consistant from batch to batch. Bob Dellis and I both tried other brands several years back before his death and didn't see much difference in color other than Kelly was a little deeper brown. We also found that brand actually soured after it had been on the shelf for awhile.

You will also get a different color with different tanneries leathers so consistancy there is important too.

Blake

[steveh]

Rookie,

Lots of good comments here....I want to add a few more. I used to tape everything when using lighter weight leather, but occasionally my tape would come loose a little and I would still get some stretching. I now put everything on 1/4" acrylic panels, even heavier weights like 9-10 oz. I cut several different sizes and shapes of acrylic to accomodate the kind of projects I typically do. I rubber cement my leather to the acrylic after casing my leather and it has worked vey well for me. I always line everything I tool so the residual cement on the back of my leather is not an issue for me. If you don't want residul glue, you can apply Barge to the acrylic only and press the piece to be tooled on while it is tacky.

The use of anything on the back of th leather to help "soften" the tooling does not work for me! I want as solid a backing as is possible so that I can get good clean, crisp tool impressions. Whenever I have a small scale, intricate tooling pattern, I reduce the thickness of the leather I tool on, for just that reason. I then will glue on a lining that will bring the thickness of the piece back to the appropriate size. I agree with David, depth is an illusion created by your design and is enhaced by the application of your tools.

I also agree with Blake, that using flatter bevelers, etc., is an option to consider when tooling lightweight leather, however, I want to add that the tools one selects to use, is dictated by the pattern. It's an issue of scale! If you'll notice, the pattern tooled by steveh on the boot tops is ornate, therefore he doesn't need to use "flat "tools in order to achieve the illusion of depth. On a broad, large pattern, the use of "flat" tools would probably enhance the illusion of depth. On the other hand, if you put very small, ornate pattern on 10-12 oz leather and cut as deep as the leather allows, the end result will be disasterous...again it's a matter of scale, dictated by the pattern.

Hope this makes some sense...if not...just ignore me.

Steve,

Is there a specific brand of Heel & Sole dressing you like to use best?

Bob

Bob, I wish it where true but I did not tool the boot tops, that is Blakes work. Just want to clarify that.

Steve