Stohlman Vs F.o. Baird Patterns - Western Holster

[FiftySix]

OK, just getting into this and fixing to cut some hide. I purchased the Al Stohlman "How to make Holsters" book and read it from cover to cover. I then took paper and traced the pattern I liked best, then modified the length to fit my gun (.45 Colt Uberti Cattleman) as the "in book" pattern (page 24) was for a 7" barrel and mine are 5.5".

When I finished the paper cut out it looked thin, so I wrapped it around an old holster I have here at the house the pattern did not go all the way around. But the existing holster is WAY too big, so I figured it was cut large to begin with and the paper pattern I cut is likely right. When I wrap the paper pattern around the actual gun it looks like it's going to be a tight fit, but it does look doable.

So, before I cut I decide I need a few more tools (dye, No. 3 Edger, and a skiving tool) and I pop into the local Tandy shop. While there I decide to pick up the F.O. Baird "Buscadero Belts & Holsters" pattern set (mainly because I'm still unsure about my paper pattern cut out). When I get home I overlay the paper pattern I cut from Al Stohlman's book over one of the patterns in the Baird set and the difference in width is rather dramatic - at least 1/2 inch in some places!

Which brings me to my question - are the patterns in the two sources acurate or do they loose out in the printing process? While I have enough leather to "make a mistake", I don't want to invest the time in hand stiching if the pattern isn't right.

Comments?

Edited May 27, 2010 by FiftySix

[rdb]

I just made the Stohlman 45 Frontier last week. I put in a partial welt (maybe halfway down the side) and lined it. I thought it seemed way too small. I compared it to Baird's holster pattern, and found the Baird one much bigger, too.

This was all prior to actually seeing or holding the customers pistol. I brought it down to the range. The 45 went into it a bit tight, but after working it in an out with a little "grease", it settled in right fine. I'm sure it will loosen up even more with a little use.

For a quicker draw, I will make it a shade bigger next time (like an 1/8"), but for fit and retention, it worked well.

I haven't made all of Stohlman's, and it's usually a long time between making them, but when you wrote this Topic, it reminded me that I think I thought the same thing you did, everytime I made one of his...and yet, all of them worked.

[dirtclod]

When you go over another holster your covering alot more distance. You have to take account the thickness of the other holster.

What i recommend is get some file folders and make your own pattern. If i remember right Al tells you how to do it. If it looks to small then add a little and check again. A screw up is great lesson, just like under bidding a job is a great lesson and i've had all of them. Guy i worker for years ago told me if you get all the jobs you bid on your working to cheap.

Edited May 28, 2010 by dirtclod

[Rayban]

I would say that if you're not willing to "invest the time" for trial and error, you've picked the wrong craft.

[FiftySix]

Thanks rdb. That's exactly what I was looking for. On a hunch I decided to try to "draw my own" using the pistol itself and a sheet of paper. I creased the paper down the middle, then set the pistol on center, then layed it over and traced the outline. Using some online instructions I found I then moved out 3/4 of an inch to create the acutal holster pattern. Much to my surprise, the new pattern was actual SMALLER than the one from Stohlman (which of course made it much smaller than the one from FO Baird. As a result of this I'm fairly certain the original pattern from Stohlman will produce what I'm after. This "first attempt" will be unlined using 7/8 weight leather, which to my way of thinking suggests the pattern doesn't have to be on the large side as the overall thickness is going to be less.

Edited May 28, 2010 by FiftySix

[FiftySix]

I would say that if you're not willing to "invest the time" for trial and error, you've picked the wrong craft.

And I'd counter with the fact that I value my time and don't want to waste it needlessly. I believe the saying is "measure twice, cut once".

[Rayban]

And I'd counter with the fact that I value my time and don't want to waste it needlessly. I believe the saying is "measure twice, cut once".

We all have a scrap bin...sounds like you'll be the exception.

[FiftySix]

We all have a scrap bin...sounds like you'll be the exception.

I fully expect to make mistakes and to create atrocities that will never see the light of day. However, I also see no reason to start a project that has no chance for success. Using a pattern "should" produce a usable product - assuming the pattern is correct to begin with. Which if I recall was the original question I posted.

BTW - is there a pattern for this "scrap bin" thingy you spoke of. I may need to make one of those as well...

Edited May 28, 2010 by FiftySix

[Rayban]

BTW - is there a pattern for this "scrap bin" thingy you spoke of. I may need to make one of those as well...

Yeah but.....it you can't follow a Al Stohlman pattern, I'm sure you can't follow mine.

[Dwight]

And of course, . . . we are talking about two different patterns, . . . made at two different times, . . . by two different craftspersons.

I seriously doubt that the holsters were Eye-Dee-dentical, . . . and just in the fact that they were different, . . . that makes for a different pattern.

I'm no pro by any stretch of the imiagination, . . . but I make a good product, . . . and I'm amazed how sometimes I just don't look, . . . don't think, . . . don't measure or plan like I should, . . .

But the result makes a good training aid.

What did Edison say about his 1000th failed experiement concerning making a practical electric light bulb? I have not failed 1000 times, . . . I have made 1000 discoveries of how not to make it.

Don't worry about little inconsistencies, . . . I know a successful holstersmith who makes a darn fine product, . . . does not use any press or jigs for cutting, . . . and his "secret" is to always cut em a little big, . . . you can always cut em down he says, . . . and he makes a good living with his holster business.

May God bless,

Dwight

[FiftySix]

For a quicker draw, I will make it a shade bigger next time (like an 1/8"), but for fit and retention, it worked well.

I went with the Stohlman pattern. Once cut I folded the sides together and then used rubber bands to hold the shape so I could test fit the 45. It's tight - very tight. For grins I tried my Ruger 22 as well. On the smaller gun there was plenty of room (maybe too much). Next time I think I'll go with your suggestion and give the sides an extra 1/8" for the 45 off the Stohlman pattern - I think that would be just right. I may need to add a filler to the trigger area on this one to create a bit more room.

[rdb]

yep, that's pretty much what i found...glad i helped

[FiftySix]

. . . and his "secret" is to always cut em a little big, . . . you can always cut em down he says, . . .

I'm thinking this is the ticket... Thanks!

[TexasJack]

Listen, get Chuck Burrows' holster making DVD. It's worth every penny. His technique allows you to make the holster to fit the gun. (His sheath making video is even better!)

[WillGhormley]

For what it's worth...

I make all my patterns to fit the specific pistol. I use a series of minimum measurements to make sure the gun fits in a holster constructed of 9-10 oz. leather. You can make it larger without any problem, but it starts gettin' tight if you go much smaller than these standard measurements. Now, I like a holster that fits a gun tight enough it's still in the holster when you need it. I don't mind yankin' that baby out, I just hate checkin' my back-trail looking for iron.

For instance, for a Colt 1873, (or clone thereof), I lay the pistol down on the folded paper just as mentioned before and trace it. Then, I add 5/8" around the trigger guard, 1" around the frame and ejector housing, and even down the barrel, (though you can start to fudge a little on the barrel, don't get under 3/4"). If the holster is goin to get a toe-plug, I allow 1/4" at the end. If it is goin' to be a sewn, round toe, I allow 3/4" at the lowest portion of the curve. If I'm addin' a lining, I generally ad 1/4" to every measurement, except for a toe-plug. The lining doesn't add enough thickness to change that measurement. With those basic measurements as my, "not tighter than this" guide, I give the holster the contours I want to see after that. Works every time for me.

Will

[FiftySix]

For what it's worth...

Coming from what I consider to be an expert, it's worth a lot! Thank you! Those guidelines will come in mighty handy on the next cut out. BTW - I've got your Cartridge Belts pattern set waiting for me to finish the holsters. I'm liking the Ranger style for this project...

[WillGhormley]

Yeah, the Ranger Belt has a lot to offer in style. It's probably my favorite all-'round belt.

Oh, on the holster measurements, those are for traditional holsters without any welts or whatnot.

Will