Pricing Of Hand Carved Belts

[hidepounder]

I feel that I am correct in charging for my time as it was a custom commission piece which the customer requested that it be his only. He gets the pattern, and it will not be duplicated on any other of my offerings. Therefore, I must charge for my time.

I absolutely agree...in that scenario it is defintely appropriate to charge for your time to draw the tooling pattern!

In general charging for drawing time is always difficult for me to figure. I am not very good at sitting down and cranking out a new pattern. It is something I struggle with and spend a LOT of time on. I have been known to spend a couple of days trying to work out a pattern for a rope bag or daily planner. I think I take considerably longer than most artists because drawing does not come easily for me. So when I'm charging my customer for a pattern I always ask myself how much time would a professional take to draw this pattern and that is what I'll base my time on. I feel that if my customer is paying for a professionally made product, I need to charge like a professional. To me that means I should charge appropriately for both my strengths and weaknesses. If the competition at my level is, in general, charging for 4 hours of design time, how can I justify the 16 hours it actually took me? (assuming we are comparing apples to apples) As time goes on I get faster, both with my drawing and with my tooling and that helps increase the hourly rate. Conversely if I am able to accomplish some task better than my competiton does, than I get to reap the benefits! So that is one way I look at pricing and there are probably a lot of folks who will strongly disagree with me, LOL!

Hope this helps...

Bobby

[Handstitched]

After reading some of the posts, I think I'm under charging, however I can't put the price up too much as I simply wouldn't sell a thing.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40990121@N05/4626429309/

I sold this rose carved belt for $60.00 Aust. ( some people baulk at that price...or try to knock me down)

Just bear in mind , that I am still a learner , but this belt to fit 38" (97cm) waist was made using 3.8-4.0mm veg tan ( everything is in millimetres down here...not ounces) , with nic hardware.

If that was to be handstitched, it would be sold for approx $80.00

Perhaps I should start charging more,( our tax time is coming up (June 30) , so I might be 'reviewing' ALL my prices, but I may run the risk of not selling any belts at all.

All the best,

HS

[David Genadek]

I have attached a picture of some belts that were part of a line that I did for a store called Billy Martin's in New York. None of these belts took me more than an hour and 15 minutes to carve. I used to figure 20 minutes for doing the rest of the construction of the belt. So I would figure about two hours of time. Now these belts would not win in a carving competition but they were about making a living not winning a competition. So to price a belt like this I would take my time in this case two hours and say I want to make $15.00 an hour for my labor or I want to pay somebody else $15.00 an hour for labor, that would mean my labor costs would be roughly $30. I would then add my material cost of roughly $10.00 and double that to $20.00. So now I am $50.00 and have added just a tad of profit on my materials. So now I need to figure my profit. Viable businesses generally will have a minimum gross profit of two and one half times their labor costs if I take 30x2.5 I end up with $75 then add the $50.00 and you end up with $125 for your asking price. In this case I was wholesaling the belts that store would at least double the price so $250.00 is a fair and reasonable price. However, fair and reasonable will be determined by the market you are in.

David Genadek

[Mongo]

Mike,

I make holsters and gun belts for cowboy action shooters. My gun belts are 8-9oz with a 4-5oz lining. For a plain or a simple border stamped 2 ½ ranger style belt I charge $145 dollars. If you want a more elaborate design, or conchos, the price goes up. I haven’t carved anything in years. I can’t keep up with demand now (working on leather part time).

If I carved as well as Bob Park does, I could charge hundreds more and easily sell it. I think Bob is correct. You are “casting pearls before swine”. I feel with the quality of your carving, if you set up as a vender at some big SASS cowboy action shooting event, you would have no problem selling your work for what it’s worth. Cowboy shooters have plenty of money and they don’t mind spending it.

[DaltonMasterson]

Mongo is correct, cowboy shooters do drop the bucks.

I also sell gunbelts, but mine are unlined basic straight belts. I get 80 for a 2 1/2" Ranger belt, with a border stamping and no loops. Everything is handsewn, but there is not much to sew on these. I always have at least 1 standing order for a gunbelt in this fashion, usually with a few loops added, or spots. These extras cost more of course.

I was charging 40 for them, and wasnt selling them. When I finally sat down and figured things out, I doubled my prices, and things really picked up. I can make one of these in the equivalent time of 1 night, if you dont count dyeing, topcoats, and edging time, which goes on for several days after assembly. I say equivalent time as I have an 11 mo old boy and full time job/other things to contend with.

So, if you base the time that it takes you to carve, and make the beautiful things you do, on the unlined straps of decorated leather I am making, you should be able to price accordingly.

Also, your location might hurt your high end sales as well. If I tried to sell a belt in the middle of Nebraska for 100.00, I would be laughed away. The clientele is not here for that sort of item. You might need to be in a more upscale location, catering to the people with money burning holes in their clothes.

Good luck, and nice belts.

DM

[David Genadek]

I think the real issue here is the amount of time it is taking. I can't imagine needing to put 35 to 40 hours into a belt unless it has completely laced edges and very intricate carving and maybe some inlays or something like that. So if it's taking you 35 to 40 hours just to do a carved belt then you need to look at why it's taking so long. What you need to do is go find some people to hang out with that can completely shatter your concept of speed. One of the people that did this for me was Bill Gomer watching him do a whole basket stamped belt in three minutes or there abouts totally changed my perspective.

Another thing I would suggest that you do is read Paul Burnett's lessons on this forum. They are an absolute gold mine and actually the best instruction on carving I have ever seen. One of the biggest detriments to speed in carving is not focusing on the proper things Paul Burnett's lessons are teaching exactly what to focus on.

You need to ask yourself if there is anything you can do in your drawing to aid in the speed. Now if you do have a really high-end market and you can get over thousand dollars for a belt you don't need to worry about this but those markets are very limited and I think the old rule: Build for the classes live with the masses. Build for the masses live with the classes holds true in the leather working world. Now if your just doing it as a hobby and you're enjoying it who cares. I have posted of a picture of a entry-level show saddle that I just designed. Everything on the saddle was designed for speed in carving. The drawing of the saddle took me about five hours and the carving took about 20 for the entire saddle. Even at that the carving time was a little beyond what I would've liked for the market I am targeting. My point is that as you develop your skills you can actually learn to draw to a price point. Doing this is nowhere near as fun as just trying to fulfill the deepest of your imagination's desires but it does pay the bills.

David Genadek

Edited June 24, 2010 by David Genadek

[mike59]

I want to sincerely thank all of you who took the time and effort to respond to my post. I have learned a great deal from your comments and suggestions, and want to you to know that I am much obliged.

Mike