A First For Me.

[GrampaJoel]

Hi guys. I have made the cowboy holsters and have enjoyed it. But this is my first auto pistol holster.

Advice excepted, with gratitude.

Edited August 8, 2010 by GrampaJoel

[katsass]

Hi guys. I have made the cowboy holsters and have enjoyed it. But this is my first auto pistol holster.

Advice excepted, with gratitude.

Well Grampaw, I'm damn near 70 and have made holsters for a while, but take from this what you will, it may only be worth all that you paid for it. I am usually leary of comenting on the work of others, however, I am in no way demeaning your work. Each of us do things our own way and see things with our own outlook.......right or wrong.

To me the gun seem to look as though it sits a little high. That may cause the butt to lean out away from your body and/or the muzzle to rub against your hip. By raising the belt loop some, I think it will keep the gun in closer to the body and your 'chubbies' (if you have some as I do). I personally never like to expose the muzzle of the firearm..........with a pretty square sight, it may cause the gun to do strange things during the draw. It also removes some of the protection that the holster is there to provide. There seems to be no cant on your rig. I generally put some forward cant on my holsters. As most people draw their weapon, their arm starts forward, the cant assists in a smoother draw. In your design it seems as though are trying to stay away from curved lines. Straight cuts are a lot easier to make..........but to my eye, less appealing in your final product. You might try to round things out a little as well as move the belt loop in toward the gun a little also. Finally, I think you might move your stitching closer to the gun, this way the holster will not loosen up as much as time passes. All that said, please don't take these comments as 'knocking' your work. I'm enclosing a pic of my first holster of the style you have done........just to visually explain what I mean by rounding things out. For years I made all holsters from a single thickness of leather.........as most do. One day I had a (more or less) rush order, and found I was short on 8/9 oz leather. I took two pieces of 4/5 oz leather, glued them up flesh sides together and went to town. I found that it seemed to mold into a more firm and rigid finished product, and had the benefit of being a lined rig. I do almost all of my holsters that way now. Hope this gives you a few thing to think about and consider, but as I said, take from my comments that what you feel worthwhile. Mike

Edited August 9, 2010 by katsass

[GrampaJoel]

katsass

Thank you very much for your reply.

It is exactly what I was hoping to get as a reply. I am not as old as you are, but I'm only a couple of years behind.

If I lower the gun in the holster does it affect the ability to draw the gun from the holster? Will the grips be to close to the holster to grab?

You're right the holster has no forward cant, as per the customers request. He says it gets a forward cant from the belt being pushed down by this belly.

It also has the barrel exposed per the customers request. I did try the rig out before delivery, and I agree with you, the squared off front site does impede the draw of the gun. I told him that ahead of time, but He didn't care. He wanted the barrel exposed. said he like the look.

The holster would stick out on a slim person but on this guy it tucks in real nicely due to his girth.

Or perhaps the girth hugs the rig nicely I might say.

Actually this time the customer was standing right next to me when I drew up the pattern and his input changed the design considerably to what it is seen as.

Thank you for your input I really appreciate it.

Joel

Edited August 9, 2010 by GrampaJoel

[katsass]

katsass

Thank you very much for your reply.

It is exactly what I was hoping to get as a reply. I am not as old as you are, but I'm only a couple of years behind.

If I lower the gun in the holster does it affect the ability to draw the gun from the holster? Will the grips be to close to the holster to grab?

You're right the holster has no forward cant, as per the customers request. He says it gets a forward cant from the belt being pushed down by this belly.

It also has the barrel exposed per the customers request. I did try the rig out before delivery, and I agree with you, the squared off front site does impede the draw of the gun. I told him that ahead of time, but He didn't care. He wanted the barrel exposed. said he like the look.

The holster would stick out on a slim person but on this guy it tucks in real nicely due to his girth.

Or perhaps the girth hugs the rig nicely I might say.

Actually this time the customer was standing right next to me when I drew up the pattern and his input changed the design considerably to what it is seen as.

Thank you for your input I really appreciate it.

Joel

Joel, I don't think I would lower the gun in the holster, I'd redesign slightly to raise the belt loop. Remember that on wheel guns, the center of gravity is around the (loaded) cylinder................In an auto pistol the CG is much higher because the weight is in the butt of the gun.

We try to do as our customer's wish, and that may not always be as we feel is proper. There have only been a few customers that I have turned away because their wishes were so contrary to safety in my opinion..............more, because I just felt that they would be more trouble than they were worth. As to odd requests, here is a rig I did for a customer that got exactly what he wanted........a horizontal cross draw for a custom Ruger Vaquero. The holster is sewn into place, but it ain't my cup of tea. BUT, he's happy and payed well. Mike

Edited August 9, 2010 by katsass

[katsass]

Hi guys. I have made the cowboy holsters and have enjoyed it. But this is my first auto pistol holster.

Advice excepted, with gratitude.

Joel, something just dawned on me......(hell, I'm a little slow anyway)..........IIRC, in Al Stohlman's book on how to make holsters there is a pattern for a long barreled single action wheel gun. It exposes a portion of the muzzle of the gun by cutting away from the full length of the tip of the holster, in a sort of spiral cut, tapering back into the welt. This way there is leather protecting the back side of the barrel, but showing most of it to the front. It might well work for what you did in your rig, with somewhat less probability of the sight catching. If you don't have the book, let me know, I can dig it out and photo it to show you what I mean. Mine is in my stuff somewhere and about 20 years old. Mike

[Rayban]

Hi guys. I have made the cowboy holsters and have enjoyed it. But this is my first auto pistol holster.

Advice excepted, with gratitude.

I too think that stitch line along the contour of the gun has to be in closer to the gun...like on your crease line.

Looks like a fine gun belt too.

[GrampaJoel]

Thanks for the replies rayban & katsass.

rayban

Do you have any suggestions as to how I could get a sewing line before I mold for the gun?

Help, as well as criticism is always welcome.

Thanks for the belt appraisal. I sold the belt with the holster because he didn't have a gun belt. So I made this double thickness one for him. I sold the belt and holster for $20.00. I know, but at least it is some money coming in. and I'm learning.

katsass

I'll see if I can find that book. If not I'll give you a holler.

Thanks again guys

Joel

Edited August 10, 2010 by GrampaJoel

[Rayban]

Thanks for the replies rayban & katsass.

rayban

Do you have any suggestions as to how I could get a sewing line before I mold for the gun?

I wet the leather enough to wrap it around the gun and pressing along the contour of the gun to form that shape. I'll use a boner to do this as well. Once that stitch line is established, and the leather is still a little wet, I flatten it out and continue with the process.

About the time I'm done cutting the holster to shape, grooving for stitching, rounding the edges etc. it's still damp and I then dye.

Let dry, then stitch.

As I always say about this leather work, you line up six guys and ask them the same "how to" question, you'll likely get six different answers.

[Deanimator]

Hi guys. I have made the cowboy holsters and have enjoyed it. But this is my first auto pistol holster.

Advice excepted, with gratitude.

Nice work.

My only suggestion is regarding ending your stitches. It looks like you tied them off on the front side. I always do it on the back, then flatten them down by rubbing with an old soup spoon.

[katsass]

I wet the leather enough to wrap it around the gun and pressing along the contour of the gun to form that shape. I'll use a boner to do this as well. Once that stitch line is established, and the leather is still a little wet, I flatten it out and continue with the process.

About the time I'm done cutting the holster to shape, grooving for stitching, rounding the edges etc. it's still damp and I then dye.

Let dry, then stitch.

As I always say about this leather work, you line up six guys and ask them the same "how to" question, you'll likely get six different answers.

As Rayban says, you'll get six different answers to your question. None are the "right" or "wrong" way, and as long as they work for you, it's good. That said, I, of course do it differently. This is how I make my patterns for auto pistol holsters. Wheel gun holsters I do a little diferently.

I lay out my patern on an cheap manilla folder by laying the firearm down with the sights alligned with the center fold, lay the gun to one side, and trace around it with a pencil held vertically. To the trigger guard side, I follow the contour of that outline wth another line equal in distance to 1/2 the thickness of the slide, plus the thickness of the leather to be used, plus 1/4 inch. This is my cutting line. My stiching line is about 3/16 inside of that. My stitching line is done with my gouge, not drawn on the patern. From there the rest is dependant upon the style of holster being designed. For me this produces a nice tight holster. Probably clear as mud to you. Here is a pic or two of how I start anyhoooo. Mike

Edited August 10, 2010 by katsass

[cstephens]

So in your bottom pic the edge is the cutout and the pencil line is the stitch line?

[katsass]

So in your bottom pic the edge is the cutout and the pencil line is the stitch line?

No. The inner line is just the outline of the gun and is used as the start for measureing to my cut line. My stitching line is always 3/16 inch inside of the cut line so I don't need to draw a stitch line. I use a double layer of leather glued together to produce the thickness of leather needed..........smooth on both sides. I run a stitching gouge around the perimeter of the piece set at 3/16 inch and saddle stitch the entire edge, so there is no need to mark a separate stitch line. Here is a little standard OWB which easily shows how my stitching is done. Mike

Edited August 10, 2010 by katsass

[katsass]

.

OK.........SORRY ABOUT THAT!!!! I HAD SOMETHING ON MY MIND AND JUST WAS NOT THINKING WHEN I MADE MY PREVIOUS POST.. In that particular holster and the 1911 holster there is no marked stitch line for the reason stated. For the type that grampaw is doing I mark the stitch line 3/16" in from what I have called the cut line, then continue to mark out the rest of the holster shape. I still gouge and stitch the entire perimeter of the holster. Please accept my apologies for any misunderstanding. Mike

Man I had myself confused, I was using holsters as examples that were both stitched just inside the 'cut' line , rather than an avaenger style..........oh hell, I guess that I'm just getting old. Mike

Edited August 10, 2010 by katsass

[Rayban]

Nice work.

My only suggestion is regarding ending your stitches. It looks like you tied them off on the front side. I always do it on the back, then flatten them down by rubbing with an old soup spoon.

Here we go...the 6 guy rule.....about the stitching....

No need to "tie them off"...try back stitching 2 or 3 stitches, then just snip the thread off at the surface.....I'll be doing some stitching later tonight so I"ll post a pic.

[katsass]

Here we go...the 6 guy rule.....about the stitching....

No need to "tie them off"...try back stitching 2 or 3 stitches, then just snip the thread off at the surface.....I'll be doing some stitching later tonight so I"ll post a pic.

All I'm going to say now is that I agree with Rayban. Mike

[Dwight]

Suggestions: (but first a word about the first time: really good for a first holster. I was doing a whole lot more before I was at your level of quality)

Iimprove your edging and burnishing techniques, . . .

Get the stitching closer to the weapon, . . . generally speaking, closer is better, . . .

Avoid abrupt angles either outside or inside, . . . go more for rounded curving lines. They are much easier to sand and finish, . . . and at least IMHO are more esthetically pleasing.

I may not have seen it right, but it also looked like you didn't do anything at all to the inside of the holster. Dye the whole thing, and whatever finish you use on the outside, . . . use it on the inside too unless you have created and want to maintain a soft inner lining like Katsass does.

May God bless,

Dwight

Edited August 11, 2010 by Dwight

[GrampaJoel]

Dwight

Thanks for the help.

Actually the inside is bone finished with Gum Taganath (sp?) to a very hard state. The rest of the holster has been boned rock hard also.

The customer wanted the inside flesh colored, and I did as he ask, but it is burnished real well. I've finished two other holsters since this one. They are up on the critique forum. Both boned to be hard as rocks.

I know I have a long ways to go before I am totally happy with the holsters I am making. And hench my postings to this forum. I apprciate you taking the time to help me out.

Thanks again for the help.

Joel

[Deanimator]

Here we go...the 6 guy rule.....about the stitching....

No need to "tie them off"...try back stitching 2 or 3 stitches, then just snip the thread off at the surface.....I'll be doing some stitching later tonight so I"ll post a pic.

I usually backstitch, but occasionally end up not doing it for whatever reason. When that's the case, I tie off on the back side. It looked to me like in the example, it was done on the front.

[5Rings]

Grampa, is that rawhide reinforcing the holster mouth? I was thinking of trying that instead of layering spring steel or kydex to keep the mouth open on an IWB.

[GrampaJoel]

5Rings

No that is not rawhide. It is just another piece of 6-7 oz with the flesh side out. Here's another shot of the holster.

[5Rings]

Thanks for the explanation and pic. Nice job- I hope my first efforts turn out that well. I know almost nothing about leather work, that's why I'm here. I do know using holsters and CCW so here's a couple thoughts on that. Use should dictate design. The canted design recommended works great for concealing larger handguns but limits where it can be worn on the belt- say from kidney area to hip bone. Here:

http://www.highnoonholsters.com/_Questions/Molding_on_front_of_holster/Foward_Cant/0__Cant/_Lining/cp_3_4_5.html

The vertical design you chose can be worn from kidney area to what's called "appendix carry" about half way between your hip and belly button. I own and use both designs almost daily and find advantages in both. Pic of where I'm referring to:

http://www.highnoonh...12_1_2_3_4.html

Also the open muzzle design has benefits as well. Certain guns (i.e. Glock 22/23/27 or 1911 Officers/Commander/Gov't) have identical profiles with regard to holsters but different slide and barrel lengths. If your customer wants to carry several guns from the same "family" the open/exposed muzzle design allows that. Several big name companies make pancake type belt slides and "Yaqui slides" for that purpose. If thats what you want then it'll work. Again nice job.

5Rings

No that is not rawhide. It is just another piece of 6-7 oz with the flesh side out. Here's another shot of the holster.