Buying A Leather Sewing Machine

[blackrosedie]

Hi everyone!

I have been teaching myself leather craft and I hand make my own bags under my brand Black.Rose.Die. Up until now I have been stitching, binding and lacing them all myself and while I love making bags using this traditional methods, it is sadly not economically viable. I need to make my production faster and lower my costs and that means getting a sewing machine. The problem I have is I have noooo idea what type of machine I need to get. I want a good all rounder that will sew a variety of weights of leather but maybe on with a cylinder arm so I can get into all those awkward places and do top stitching etc. I am wondering if you have any suggestions for the type of machine I should look for. I was told an Singer K 29 would meet my needs but someone else told me that is used for patching shoes and what I need is a flat bed or cylinder arm machine. Arghhh so stressful as I need to find something second hand and I need it fast as I am losing out on potential clients etc with such slow production. I am also located in New Zealand which puts some limits on sourcing a machine. You can see the type of things I have been making on my blog here but I really want a machine that will allow me to work with a range of weights.

Any help would be really really really appreciated as I am tearing my hair out right now!

Thanks,

Kimberley

P.S I am sorry I have put this in the wrong thread. I see there is a specific thread for sewing machines...I can't seem to figure out how to delete or move this to the appropriate place. Sorry!

Edited August 31, 2010 by blackrosedie

[dirtclod]

If i was you i would look for a cylinder arm machine. But a flat bed machine might work all right till you can what you really want. The K29 i would leave alone unless you want to patch shoes. That's about the only thing their really good for.

Nice looking bags.

[blackrosedie]

Thanks DirtClod, that is really good to know. I am so glad I decided to double check on getting the singer.

[blackrosedie]

Do you know what the difference is between the Adler 105 and a cylinder arm walking foot? Also how much is reasonable to pay for a suitable machine second hand do you think?

[dirtclod]

I don't know what the difference is in the Adler machine. Their are some movies on you tube. Here's one of them

. I would take samples of what you want to sew with you and try out the machine before you buy if you can. If that's not something you can do i would ask if you can send some samples and have them sew it for you. I'm not real sure what a used machine would sell for. The Adlers are pretty pricey machines new and i'm guessing they will hold their value. Oh be sure and check on extra feet and bobbins that you might need or want.

I have a couple of the patch machines and they are nice for what they are made for but that's about it.

[Cobra Steve]

Hello Kimberley, I suggest that you call as many Sewing Machine Dealers as possible. After talking to them, (including myself), you will have as much information needed to make a confident decision. We are all willing to help you. Do your own research on this forum, there is valuable info here. Thanks, Steve

[jimsaddler]

Hi Kimberly

The Adler 105 and the Singer 45K 25 are Cylinder Arm Machines with a Bottom Feed with similar features. Used for generations in the Hand Bag and Saddlery Trades. Now there are a number of Machines that have superceded them by having Compound Feeds or Walking Foot systems, that make control of the work easier. A Cylinder Arm is a great advantage for making Handbags, as you can get around corners easier.

You can pick up a 45K for arround A$1.000. with the 105 being a bit dearer. Funny thing is that the Clones are available new for just above that price New. A Compound Feed Cylinder Arm will be arround the A$ 1.800 to 3.000. New. In NZ you should still have a few Shoe trade Machines kicking around SH also. If you find any, ask for opinions here and there are plenty who will advise you.

Kindest Regards.

Jim Saddler.

Do you know what the difference is between the Adler 105 and a cylinder arm walking foot? Also how much is reasonable to pay for a suitable machine second hand do you think?

[Skald]

It's hard to tell how the situation is there "down under", but here in Sweden you can find old leather sewing machines quite cheap. And by old I mean "antique looking", and in my opinion, that's the only ones worth buying if you ain't going to produce really large scale, and thus can buy a real heavy duty industrial machine of a more recent date.

My father have had an old Singer machine (that he fitted with an electrical engine) since the 80'ies, and have been swearing and cursing it now and then when it's been malfunctioning. He eventually bought some quite expensive brand new machine, but never got pleased with it. He also bought some quite old industrial machine, but threw it out almost right away - and he keeps sticking to this old Singer, even though they are not always best friends.

I too have been using it quite a bit, but I prefer to sew by hand, using the good old awl, two nails and "pony clamp" (or whatever it's called in English). It's really superior for the more heavy duty tasks, even though I understand it's not possible if you are going to mass produce, more or less.

So my two cents are: If anything, avoid cheap Asian machines (etc.), they are no solution. A good ol' Singer or similar (recently gone through by a professional), or making a quite expensive investment and buying an industrial machine is the way to go I guess. I have hear nothing but evil things about the new/cheap machines.

[blackrosedie]

Hi all,

Thanks so much for taking the time to advise me. My dad has a friend who did upholstery leather work and he is keen to sell me his machine. It is a long arm unicorn. I can't find a whole heap about them online, it is a Korean brand. He has given me the name of the rep in NZ who does servicing and stuff so I can talk to him. Il go check out the machine early next week and have a go. He also said alternatively if I want I can just out source my sewing needs to his wife who used the machine to sew bags. I don't think that is the way to go though. Skald I love trusty saddle stitch and stuff and still plan to do some hand finishing on the bags but I just can't meet demand for stores wanting multiples etc.

[Jimbob]

Hi all,

Thanks so much for taking the time to advise me. My dad has a friend who did upholstery leather work and he is keen to sell me his machine. It is a long arm unicorn. I can't find a whole heap about them online, it is a Korean brand. He has given me the name of the rep in NZ who does servicing and stuff so I can talk to him. Il go check out the machine early next week and have a go. He also said alternatively if I want I can just out source my sewing needs to his wife who used the machine to sew bags. I don't think that is the way to go though. Skald I love trusty saddle stitch and stuff and still plan to do some hand finishing on the bags but I just can't meet demand for stores wanting multiples etc.

Hi there

I have an ADLER 105 and make a lot of bags and 3-dimensional items as such.....works great and these ADLER's are very reliable!!!

Some cheaper clone parts even fit these babies!!

It has a small enough cylinder arm and works like a charm, very simple to operate and easy to tune, oil and clean......no wonder they have been around for so long!!!

For bags, pouches and belts that is the one to have!!

Not a saddle machine and no walking foot but affordable good 'ol German iron work!!

Greetings

Jimbob

[blackrosedie]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your advice. I got a machine last night, I hope it is going to do what I need it too. So scary sewing on it! I have not used an industrial machine for a long time. It is quite beat up and has a singer motor in it but I got it at a bargain price. It looks like I might also being given a flat bed industrial machine too which will be great. I included some pictures.

[Jimbob]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your advice. I got a machine last night, I hope it is going to do what I need it too. So scary sewing on it! I have not used an industrial machine for a long time. It is quite beat up and has a singer motor in it but I got it at a bargain price. It looks like I might also being given a flat bed industrial machine too which will be great. I included some pictures.

What ur pictures showing ia a small cylinder Pfaff...also made in Germany...but not a Adler 105...which is much bigger...!!?

James

[blackrosedie]

Hi James,

Yep I ended up getting the Pfaff, the Adler was out of my price range. When I went to view the machine I saw it had a singer motor in it, I guess its being tinkered with. Do you think it will be suitable for me needs? Thanks : )

[dirtclod]

Black rose i hope your new machine works well for you and that get rich and famous selling your bags.

[blackrosedie]

Aw thanks dirt clod - I just hope I don't sew through my fingers or something terrible. That machine is a beast!

[dirtclod]

If you get a finger caught under the foot or needle i bet you will only do it once . I got my finger pinched ONCE when i got it under the foot on another machine i had !!!

Edited September 9, 2010 by dirtclod

[blackrosedie]

I am a little worried that I have got the wrong machine. Maybe it is an industrial binding machine? The model number is 335-h2-17/01. I can't find much basic information. Arggghhh

[Jimbob]

Aw thanks dirt clod - I just hope I don't sew through my fingers or something terrible. That machine is a beast!

Well...the Adler 105 needs an external motor....no matter what brand it is....as long as it turnes the machine, not to fast....and strong enough to do the job...,

Adler 105's go for about 800 bucks in bad condition to 1500 bucks in mint condition and some more....

James

[blackrosedie]

I am confused. It is not an Adler, it is a pfaff and when I looked under the table the motor attached to it said Singer. The Pfaff's barcode plate reads 335-h2-17/01 and I am trying to determine if it is actually a leather sewing machine or a binding machine or if it is a leather sewing machine, it just has a binding attachment. Argh. I am sorry but I am not good with this kind of stuff. I will just cry if it is not what I need.

[dirtclod]

I wouldn't worry about what brand of motor is on it as long as it works. Personally i think it will be fine for what your sewing. Just guessing here will you need to sew over two or three thickness's on your purse? Take some scrap pieces and sew them and see how it does.Pfaff's are good sewing machines.

Edited September 9, 2010 by dirtclod

[blackrosedie]

Ok cool, because I am just worried that it is not intended for sewing because on the internet it mentions it being used for binding. I did some sewing on it. It went through what I needed it too.

[Jimbob]

Ok cool, because I am just worried that it is not intended for sewing because on the internet it mentions it being used for binding. I did some sewing on it. It went through what I needed it too.

One more time....as the Adler, the one you mentioned before and this Pfaff now,,,,these machines have an external motor mounted under the table....no matter what brand it is (motor) as long as it pulls the machine and sews your leather it is a OK motor!! ( most likely a clutch motor...)

Cant tell if it is a walking foot but you should be OK with purse leather in several layers....get yourself a DC servo motor from Toledo industrial sewing machines in Ohio ( Bob Kovar) and life will be good!!

Dont have to worry about sewing your fingers into a purse and you will love the ajustable speed control on these motors!!

Speed is a NO No on leather sewing machines!!

Have fun and sew the heck out of this machine,,,,always use new needles ( spear point for leather...) and keep everything oiled,,,,get a manual!!

then show off what you have created...

Greetings

[blackrosedie]

Thanks for the information Jimbob. I will let you all know how it goes!

[Wizcrafts]

....get yourself a DC servo motor from Toledo industrial sewing machines in Ohio ( Bob Kovar) and life will be good!!

Be sure to let Bob Kovar know what voltage and cycles per second your power source is operating at. I don't know what the range of variance is in the servo motors, but clutch motors allow you to use 50 cycle power, if that is what you have, and just run a bit slower as a result.

[harnessman]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your advice. I got a machine last night, I hope it is going to do what I need it too. So scary sewing on it! I have not used an industrial machine for a long time. It is quite beat up and has a singer motor in it but I got it at a bargain price. It looks like I might also being given a flat bed industrial machine too which will be great. I included some pictures.

Hi

That is a great old machine and will do for a lot of the type of work that you are describing. However it is a high speed industrial sewing machine and, as you have already found out, blazing fast! The first thing I would do to it is put a speed reducer on it, then throw the clutch motor out and put one of the DC servo motors on it. That will tame the beast down to manageable levels and give you a lot more punching power and control for leather work. Just for grins and giggles here is a thread that I posted recently on an alternative, cheap, way to slow these speed demons down. http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=26086

Finally, expect a learing curve, and a few busted needles, untill you learn to run your new machine. It also helps if you can get a maintainance manual on that specific model you you can learn to keep it in propper adjustment. Not hard to do if you have a bit of mechanical aptitude and a little patience, and a lot cheeper than calling the mechanic every couple of months to fine tune it.

JMHO

Jim