Leather In Scottish History

[budd4766]

I've been asked to do a show-n-tell on leather work in Scottish history....because I'm a leather worker, and have Scottish ancestors. I'm going to make a sporran and kilt belt for the "show", but I'm having trouble with the "tell" part.

Problem is, I can't find any material to talk about how leather was tooled/used in Scotland, other than the obvious...to hold up yer kilt! When you do a search on line, you'll either get hits from sporran makers, kilts, or William Wallace...but I'm yet to see any info on the history of leather in Scotland.

Anybody have any information on this? Or, can you point me towards where I could at least find it myself?

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Too bad you were not talking about sewing machines, the largest Singer plant was in Scotland.

You didn't say how long of a talk you need to give. Hopefully one of the members from Scotland can help you out some. Depending on how far back you go, leather's role in history will change greatly. Look at the US for example. There are a lot more items made today with synthetics that used to be leather; shoes, boots, purses, packs, etc. A lot of the old military equipment was leather, but no now. Leather workers were probably like blacksmiths in that they made everyday, mundane items for general consumption. Shoes, boots, horse tack, straps, buggy seats, cases, etc.. Some of these would be done by leather specialists like cobblers for one. I am sure that there were apprenticeships, and guilds too.

Depending on the age of the group, and the length of talk, you may not need that much detailed info.

[Luke Hatley]

I've been asked to do a show-n-tell on leather work in Scottish history....because I'm a leather worker, and have Scottish ancestors. I'm going to make a sporran and kilt belt for the "show", but I'm having trouble with the "tell" part.

Problem is, I can't find any material to talk about how leather was tooled/used in Scotland, other than the obvious...to hold up yer kilt! When you do a search on line, you'll either get hits from sporran makers, kilts, or William Wallace...but I'm yet to see any info on the history of leather in Scotland.

Anybody have any information on this? Or, can you point me towards where I could at least find it myself?

I wished i could give you more help .But Get in touch with Bud Hisky here in Memphis

he might be of some help.

[budd4766]

I'm speaking for 30 minutes...I'm thinking early 1700s or before. There wasn't much kilt wearing after 1745 for quite a while. I know Andrew Muirhead in Scotland is one of the oldest tannery's in the world...sent them an email for info if they have it.

Just wondering how I can make the stretch from what a Scottish leather worker would do, to what we do today. Things like, I don't know if they tooled their leather, or just painted designs on it....? These are potential customers, so I have to tie the history into what I would do for 'em.

I think I can BS my way through 30 minutes or so, but, if there's any info out there, I need to do due diligence to find it.

[Luke Hatley]

Why not just show them how to make a pair of Gillies...........

It would be of Leather.........

[Glaisne]

I've been asked to do a show-n-tell on leather work in Scottish history....because I'm a leather worker, and have Scottish ancestors. I'm going to make a sporran and kilt belt for the "show", but I'm having trouble with the "tell" part.

Problem is, I can't find any material to talk about how leather was tooled/used in Scotland, other than the obvious...to hold up yer kilt! When you do a search on line, you'll either get hits from sporran makers, kilts, or William Wallace...but I'm yet to see any info on the history of leather in Scotland.

Anybody have any information on this? Or, can you point me towards where I could at least find it myself?

As a kilt wearer, I can say that neither are used to hold up the kilt. The belt kept the old kilts from "unwrapping". Modern kilts have small leather straps and buckles on the side. The sporran is just a pouch as the kilt has no pockets. Two sites that come to mind. The first site is a little more in depth but both have great information. With a little browsing, I think you might find something to help you out.

http://xmarksthescot.com/

http://kiltsrock.com

If I can be of other assistance please give me a shout!

James

Edited September 20, 2010 by Glaisne

[budd4766]

Thanks James.

I'm also a kilt wearer, and I'm a member of both of those forums. I've been searching them for info already...even sent Matt Newsome a PM to see if he has anything I can use. Thought I'd try here as well.

I know belts aren't really necessary with a kilt, but they do look cool with one. I was thinking more along the lines of a great kilt...that doesn't fit quite as nicely as our modern kilts...a belt would be handy there. Plus, there's sword sheaths, frogs, and straps that I imagine were mostly made of leather. Need to find out how they tooled their stuff, or if they tooled it at all.

[ChuckBurrows]

FWIW - Yes tooling was done on pre-1745 Scots leather. Tooling goes back at least to the Ancient Egyptians and even earlier to the Neo-Lithic period.

The various books by John Waterer are an excellent resource on the history of leather through the ages.

[KatieG]

There's always scabbards for swords and knives... what about the straps on bagpipes? Horse tack? Aprons for blacksmiths? I'm sure some stuff that was the same in Scotland and England.. I mean... they're on the same island.

And go Scots! I'm a Black Douglas, myself

[budd4766]

ChuckBurrows: Thanks. I'm having trouble finding books by Waterer...none of the libraries I've checked with can find it. But that's exactly the stuff I'm looking for.

KatieG: Yes! Go Scots! I'm a Keith, and darn proud of it.. Like I said, I'm making a kilt belt, sporran and straps, (for myself, but to pass around as well). I'm planning to carve thistles on both and color it "sheridan style"...at least that's the plan. Thought about the sword sheath or a targe, but I'm going to run out of time, so I'm trying to keep it simple.

[KatieG]

KatieG: Yes! Go Scots! I'm a Keith, and darn proud of it.. Like I said, I'm making a kilt belt, sporran and straps, (for myself, but to pass around as well). I'm planning to carve thistles on both and color it "sheridan style"...at least that's the plan. Thought about the sword sheath or a targe, but I'm going to run out of time, so I'm trying to keep it simple.

Have you tried looking for a local historical society? I wish my local-ish highland games had leatherworkers.. the closest was someone selling cheap tie-on bracelets with misaligned celtic stamps from tandy on them unfinished edges, for like $20. I was very nice and just looked and kept walking,... didn't laugh in their faces or anything.

Sorry for the little sidetrack there....

And even if you only have a small amount of time, you could have some items premade. I mean, they were tradesmen, too, so probably did alot of standard stuff like tack. Not glorious or beautiful, but hey it put food on the table.

[ChuckBurrows]

For info on John W Waterer and his writings see:

http://www.museumofleathercraft.org/

one book Leather Craftsmanship is available on Amazon for a not bad price:

http://www.amazon.com/Leather-Craftsmanship-John-William-Waterer/dp/0713510315

other titles include Leather and the Warrior

A list of books dealing with historical leather:

http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/leather/bibl.html

one example of mid-1700's Scottish leather tooling - this is real typical of the period:

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

KAtieG,

I grew up in Fairfield CA, just down the road from you. I never attended them, but I understand there is a huge Highland games event in Santa Rosa.

Budd, do you have any local Highland groups that you can contact?

[Jos]

While I cannot add specifics to the Scottish scene, one point that might prove helpful when doing searches (or possibly even become a topic of lecture) is the difference between a "Cobbler" and a "Cordwainer". Some of my ancestors were Welsh Cordwainers, so I was interested to discover the differences (I presume there would be some degree of crossover into the Scottish!). In essence, the Cobbler worked with old leather, so repaired shoes etc.; while the Cordwainer worked with new leather only, so was a manufacturer of shoes and fine leather goods. Note that a Saddler or Harness-Maker of course would be different again.

The name Cordwainer originated from the type of leather often used by them - "Cordwain" or "Cordovan" leather - from Córdoba, Spain. References to the occupation date back to the 1100's.

Again, I do not know if the terminology is the same in Scotland, but even if it is not, there may well be Gaelic equivalents of the different words.

Hope this helps a little, and good luck!

[KatieG]

KAtieG,

I grew up in Fairfield CA, just down the road from you. I never attended them, but I understand there is a huge Highland games event in Santa Rosa.

The Games I've gone to have been by San Diego, where my dad lives. I actually just moved to this area from Saint Louis in December. ^^.;;;

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

KatieG,

My oldest brother lived in Richmond-the good part up in the hills. I know a cop in Richmond, and he has told me that in some areas down by the bay the partner is unholstered as soon as they drive into the neighborhood-pretty rough. Unfortunately, this is the case with a lot of large Metro areas.

Since you are new there, here are some neat things to check out. The Exploratorium in SF ( I remember when it was just a warehouse, and operated on donations), Pier 39 (where my brother worked) There used to be a leather shop on the pier called the Sandal Makers. I bought a Kepi there in 1979, and still wear it. Up the road in Fairfield is the Jelly Belly Candy Co. (where I worked), and the Anheuser Busch brewery. For outdoor stuff Mt Tamalpias, Pt Reyes Nat Seashore, Muir Woods, and the Monterey Bay Aquarium for starters. Lots of great things to do in that half of the state. Unfortunately for me I couldn' t take the politics anymore. My advice; stay for the job, save your money, then go somewhere else----unless the politicians get reigned in. It certainly isn't the state I remember growing up in. The only things I miss from CA are the trees, and fresh produce.

One thing that you will find out is Mark Twain was right when he said 'The coldest winter I ever spent, was a summer in San Francisco."

[KatieG]

KatieG,

My oldest brother lived in Richmond-the good part up in the hills. I know a cop in Richmond, and he has told me that in some areas down by the bay the partner is unholstered as soon as they drive into the neighborhood-pretty rough. Unfortunately, this is the case with a lot of large Metro areas.

Since you are new there, here are some neat things to check out. The Exploratorium in SF ( I remember when it was just a warehouse, and operated on donations), Pier 39 (where my brother worked) There used to be a leather shop on the pier called the Sandal Makers. I bought a Kepi there in 1979, and still wear it. Up the road in Fairfield is the Jelly Belly Candy Co. (where I worked), and the Anheuser Busch brewery. For outdoor stuff Mt Tamalpias, Pt Reyes Nat Seashore, Muir Woods, and the Monterey Bay Aquarium for starters. Lots of great things to do in that half of the state. Unfortunately for me I couldn' t take the politics anymore. My advice; stay for the job, save your money, then go somewhere else----unless the politicians get reigned in. It certainly isn't the state I remember growing up in. The only things I miss from CA are the trees, and fresh produce.

One thing that you will find out is Mark Twain was right when he said 'The coldest winter I ever spent, was a summer in San Francisco."

Well, I live in the nice part, by the Marina lol. We tell people we live in Richmond and they look at us funny, and then we say "the nice part" and they ask ",...it has a nice part?" ^^.;

I've been to Pier 39, I didn't see a leather shop! Sad. but maybe it found a new home!! What's a Kepi?

I still haven't been to the Jelly Belly factory, I might go in March. As for Busch... blech. Don't/can't drink lol. (allergies! whoooo!) Thank you for the awesome ideas!! :-D

I like it here, to be honest...all of my family is from California. I live with my mom (she's the one with the job). I pretty much ignore politics. I'm not much for them... too much posturing, too little truth. I actually think that my issue with it was back when I lived in Illinois and our rep was Dennis Hastert, the then-speaker of the house, and when we asked him to sign something to help juvenile diabetes, he refused because of some stupid political thing... like it can look bad to help sick kids?! Ugh.

Sorry for the rambling lol...

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

A Kepi is a style of hat, most recognizable as the ones used during the Civil War.

I don't drink beer, but I still found the Busch tour interesting. When I had my machine and fab shop I did a lot of work for the small wineries.

Forgot to mention that Thompson chocolate is just down the road from JB.

The JB tour was ranked the best in the country by Readers Digest magazine.

I was 4 months old when Dad got stationed at Travis Air Force Base, and he retired in 1967. He ended up getting a job at at Mare Island naval shipyard, so we ended up staying in Fairfield. I like the area, lots to do, but they kept restricting my main hobbies-shooting, and cars, so I bailed out after my parents passed away.

[gary]

I've been asked to do a show-n-tell on leather work in Scottish history....because I'm a leather worker, and have Scottish ancestors. I'm going to make a sporran and kilt belt for the "show", but I'm having trouble with the "tell" part.

Problem is, I can't find any material to talk about how leather was tooled/used in Scotland, other than the obvious...to hold up yer kilt! When you do a search on line, you'll either get hits from sporran makers, kilts, or William Wallace...but I'm yet to see any info on the history of leather in Scotland.

Anybody have any information on this? Or, can you point me towards where I could at least find it myself?

Just read this post.

Bagpipes - the bag's made from sheepskin (okay, they do nice goretex ones now that you don't need to 'season') but the purists still like the original leather ones as they can muck about with treacle and stuff to keep them airtight. And the valve on the blowpipe was leather (platic and rubber now but I still use a leather one - just something else you can use offcuts for).

All the different sorts of sporrans with various dead animals on the front (badger, deer, otter, seal, horsehair and so on - until CITES made some of that difficult).

Just a few random thoughts.

Gary

[connorferster]

For historical research, I find it is always best to use a journal database like JSTOR (jstor.org). I periodically like to look up historical information on leather wallets (I'm the guy editing the wikipedia article and JSTOR is always where I go for information. Truly, it is stuff you just can't find anywhere else.

You can do free searches at JSTOR.org but you can't view the comprehensive search details. Go there now and try a search to see exactly what you can bring up. Doing a quick search myself for "scotland" "leather" "17th century", I found an actual journal called "The Scottish Antiquary". Often the information you need is contained within several articles about other topics that have a paragraph or two directly relating to the information you need but sometimes you can get lucky and get exactly what you need.

Of course, the downside with JSTOR is that you need to access it through a library. Call your nearest college or university library and let them know you are doing historical research and ask how you may have walk-in access to their database. You might also try your public library. It's amazing how much help you can get from librarians if you are earnest, kind, creative, enthusiastic, and persistent.

Honestly, if you are trying to do any kind of deep research for information no one else will know, JSTOR and other article databases are the most efficient and effective method for doing it

Good luck!

[budd4766]

Thanks! I'll check that out for sure!

donnie

[Nighthawk]

One thing I'm surprised I haven't seen in this thread is mention of the targe.

They were usually just just leather stretched over wood and secured with nails, but they often were very intricate with tooling.

[JJLeatherworks]

Well, I live in the nice part, by the Marina lol. We tell people we live in Richmond and they look at us funny, and then we say "the nice part" and they ask ",...it has a nice part?" ^^.;

I've been to Pier 39, I didn't see a leather shop! Sad. but maybe it found a new home!! What's a Kepi?

I still haven't been to the Jelly Belly factory, I might go in March. As for Busch... blech. Don't/can't drink lol. (allergies! whoooo!) Thank you for the awesome ideas!! :-D

I like it here, to be honest...all of my family is from California. I live with my mom (she's the one with the job). I pretty much ignore politics. I'm not much for them... too much posturing, too little truth. I actually think that my issue with it was back when I lived in Illinois and our rep was Dennis Hastert, the then-speaker of the house, and when we asked him to sign something to help juvenile diabetes, he refused because of some stupid political thing... like it can look bad to help sick kids?! Ugh.

Sorry for the rambling lol...

The only leather shop in S.F. I know of any more is off Folsom. Thats if your into the kinky stuff. As for Fairfield do the Jelly Belly thing. Thompson candy and Guittard chocolate are around the corner. Just don't hang around town too long. It went ghetto from all the hilltop mall gangs. Thank the Lord I got out of California. Good luck to anybody who is hanging on out there.

[scottishshoemaker]

Old scots word for shoemaker was a snab or snob if your english, he got the pick of the good leather and the cobblers got the what was left,this is where the expression comes from if someone is called a snob. Kilmarnock in Scotland was the biggest shoemaking city in its day. Apart from shoes,scabbards,sword belts and targes I think it would be like any country if there where coo's in a field.

[budd4766]

Luke,

I'm thinking gillies might be too much on top of the kilt belt, sporran/straps I'm already making. And, I'll use the belt and sporran stuff, not sure I'd wear gillies after this is over with..

But, I could take some upholstery leather and make some of these, perhaps: