Advice On Lasting Boots

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Paul,

I have finished the boots, as of about two days ago they are done with the exception of some minor tweaks, and finishing nailing down the heel stack of one of the boots. They turned out pretty well overall I think, but have some problems that need to be addressed in the next pair i make.

The biggest problem i think is that when lasting the boots I pulled the counters too far down over the feather edge, distorting the whole shape of the boot just a little bit in the rear.They are completely wearable, and once the leather is properly broken in this problem will likely be alleviated, but it's causing a bit of pain on the back of my heel. Not a terribly big deal though.

I will post up some pictures in the next few days, but I am done! And I am happy and getting lots of compliments about them.

nick

[Leatherimages]

Congratulations Nick. I'm eager to see them.

I was told to always look for three things I could do to improve on each pair I make. Never more - never less.

To find more than three is just too discouraging. To find less is kidding yourself.

Oh, and not to point them out to everybody I meet.

I'm looking forward to seeing pictures.

OK, what's next?

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Paul,

Good advice about looking for only 3 things to improve on the next pair. Incidentally I found my three while making these one: Lasting allowance, I will try a 30mm lasting allowance on the next pair, angle of holes when holing the holdfast, try to get a steeper angle so that when sewing the upper to the holdfast the stitches come out on the bottom of the boot so they aren't visible, unlike these ones where they came out just at the feather edge of the last and are partly visible, and finally when lasting the upper make sure that the counter is being lasted at the proper height on the last (these boots the counter ended up being pulled down too low, but I didn't realize that until I had already sewn the welt on.

there are others, but those will be my main areas to focus on.

Next up is a messenger bag that I cut out, but have been neglecting for a couple of months. Will make this to replace my leather backpack that I made for myself about a year ago. The backpack is in need of some revision to make it more convenient for daily use. Want to give my hands a bit of time to rest. After that I plan to make a set of hand rigs to help ease tension and damaged caused to my hands while working. After that (mid february-ish) I plan to make another pair of boots for myself after I have had the chance to wear these boots in a bit and find more weak points. I need to revise the process I used for making the heel stack, as the stacks I made turned out to be somewhat uneven across the contact surface of the heel (where the heel meets the sole) and those are translating into pressure points on my heel and arch.

I plan to travel to Tibet some time in the next year as well, so I am thinking to make a third pair of boots in late spring that are more rugged with aggressive tread, possibly double vamp galoshes to make sure they are weather/water proof for doing some mountain climbing and exploration while there. I also plan to make a new trail backpack. The backpack I have now is essentially a trail bag, but the leather I used was heavy 7~8oz leather and it's a bit on the heavy side without cargo, so I either need to revise this one or just make a new one outright.

Anyway this is turning into a bit of a novel, so here are the photos. Let me know what you think!

Nick

[Leatherimages]

Wow Nick, you've got some skills, I'll say that. Very Good! Fantastic! These really look good.

Your insole looks really good. You took those notes impressivly.

I like your french turned top line. And I like your lacing technique and the tongue.

That's an interesting sole material. What is it? Chrome leather?

I do see what you mean about the short counter/heel stiffener. It ought to be about 1 7/8" to 2 1/8" above the feather, depending on the size of the foot.

You've also got a pretty good edge on them. Did you sand that by hand?

Is that artificial sinew you have there for thread? It looks like you've used that same thread for the whole boot? I'm sure you're just glad the have what you do.

Do you have any choices of thread so as to change the stitching, to attain greater water resistancy? (I don't say water proof. No such thing).

There are good combinations of which leathers and which treatments wiil provide the most water resistancy,but technique can do alot in that regard also.

If I may address the stitching you've done on these: There indeed is a certain visual style to this size thread size on something for outdoor wear, but it ought not to be used on basic component seams. It's also likely to be subject to more abrasion, because of standing so proud.

There's evidence that you've done alot of stitching on leather, but for upper closing (where water resistancy is critcal) the holes and thread need to be smaller. The awl one uses has alot to do with this. I say awl, because the shape of the "hole" is important.

It looks like you're making a round hole with a punch?

Try instead an awl, preferably with a tapered blade shape, so you make a cut like this / instead of a hole like this o. You can use a pattern wheel may have 8-10 stitches per inch (spi), as a guide, which should be about right for an ankle boot. A silver ink pen works good to reveal the stitch line on the dark leather, but baby powder will highlight it for you too.

Another thing, use as small a thread as possible.

If this is what you can get, you could use the thread you have there and cut the length you need, and "untwist" and separate a few stands for your work, and then retwist and wax it closed. And of course the needle should be right for the hole you "cut", and the length of the stitch and distance from the edge adjusted.

I am very proud to have been involved with you as you made these. Thank you for the exchange.

Good luck with you next projects.

Paul

Edited January 21, 2011 by Leatherimages

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Wow Nick, you've got some skills, I'll say that. Very Good! Fantastic! These really look good.

Your insole looks really good. You took those notes impressivly.

I like your french turned top line. And I like your lacing technique and the tongue.

That's an interesting sole material. What is it? Chrome leather?

First of all let me say thank you for the compliments, it is encouraging to hear them! I decided that the british ladder lacing would be appropriate since they are a scottish styled shoe through and through except for the slightly raised heel. The visible sole material you're asking about is a thin layer of chrome leather that I used before for making a bag. It is sturdy but very pliable and I decided to try using it to add traction since I don't have any rubber sole material right now to cap with.

I do see what you mean about the short counter/heel stiffener. It ought to be about 1 7/8" to 2 1/8" above the feather, depending on the size of the foot.

You've also got a pretty good edge on them. Did you sand that by hand?

When you say sand them, what do you mean exactly? Sand what? Where? All sanding was done by hand except for some shaping work that I did on the heels

Is that artificial sinew you have there for thread?

Yes it is.

It looks like you've used that same thread for the whole boot?

That is correct

I'm sure you're just glad the have what you do. Do you have any choices of thread so as to change the stitching, to attain greater water resistancy? (I don't say water proof. No such thing).

There are good combinations of which leathers and which treatments wiil provide the most water resistancy,but technique can do alot in that regard also.

I have though carefully about this, and ultimately that's what lead me to use the artificial sinew. There are some choices, although not very broad ranges. Nothing that would give me the chance to walk into the leather working shops and say "i need xxx linen at .yyy diameter". There are a few choices available, but not a huge selection, and I suppose I could do with trying out different threads to see what works for me. What sort of thread material mixtures would you suggest for heavy-duty boots? One thing about he boots that I made is that the thread is doubled up so that there are 4 pieces of thread running through each whole, instead of 2 thicker threads.

If I may address the stitching you've done on these: There indeed is a certain visual style to this size thread size on something for outdoor wear, but it ought not to be used on basic component seams. It's also likely to be subject to more abrasion, because of standing so proud.

I can very well see what you're talking about when you mention the threads being subject to greater abrasion.

There's evidence that you've done alot of stitching on leather, but for upper closing (where water resistancy is critcal) the holes and thread need to be smaller. The awl one uses has alot to do with this. I say awl, because the shape of the "hole" is important.

It looks like you're making a round hole with a punch?

On the layer of leather which is on top (where the holes are visible) I used a hole punch to make a neat looking round hold, and then on the layer below it where the holes are no visible I left them unpunched and then went back over each hole with an awl a hair larger than the needles I am using to punch the last holes.

Try instead an awl, preferably with a tapered blade shape, so you make a cut like this / instead of a hole like this o. You can use a pattern wheel may have 8-10 stitches per inch (spi), as a guide, which should be about right for an ankle boot. A silver ink pen works good to reveal the stitch line on the dark leather, but baby powder will highlight it for you too.

I will try to use a bladed awl when punching holes on my next boots. I recently hammered a new bladed awl and used new knife sharpening skills I've been trying to hone it to a near mirror finish as you suggested before.

Another thing, use as small a thread as possible.

One fear that I have about using thin thread thread is the chance of it wearing out and breaking more quickly. What are your thoughts about this? When I make my bags I use the same thread as what I used on these boots because the bags themselves are somewhat heavy (being made of 6~8oz full grain leather, and being large in dimensions and meant to carry a lot of stuff) so the thickness of the thread is important to them being rugged and able to carry a heavy load, so I just applied the same logic to the boots needing to have heavy thread to bear the stress of constant motion. What do you think?

If this is what you can get, you could use the thread you have there and cut the length you need, and "untwist" and separate a few stands for your work, and then retwist and wax it closed. And of course the needle should be right for the hole you "cut", and the length of the stitch and distance from the edge adjusted.

I understand what you are saying and will start to experiment with these ideas.

I am very proud to have been involved with you as you made these. Thank you for the exchange.

Thanks for being here and helping and supporting me with all the great information! I hope you will be able to accompany me on my next pair, which may in fact be for someone close to me and a different style that might be more up your alley.

Good luck with you next projects.

Paul

[mrwhite]

Most interesting thread(to me) I have found on any forum in a long while.

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Mr. White thank you for the comment! I have two pairs of boots, a pair of shoes, and a pair of fur slippers in the pipeline now, so you can see photos of those when they're all done.