Advice On Lasting Boots

[sepulverture]

Hey Paul, thanks for the compliments!

The stitch holes that are visible are actually only exterior holes. Since all of them are seams I only punched holes with the puncher on the outer layers of leather. The portions of the seams that are not visible (the under layers) are punched with a waxed awl to help keep out water and dust. Not perfect of course, but ought to help. Additionally I am going over all the seams on the inside with a sealant like silicon caulking or something along those lines.

As for the liner I'm not exactly sure what is meant by an inverted seam, but I think I have an idea. Would you care to explain it for me though, just to be sure?

As for the tongue I am thinking about a simple full-bellows tongue. Comfortable, and better water-proofing/wind-proofing.

[Leatherimages]

I like the idea of a sealant behind the holes. A band of 1 1/2 to 2 ounce leather, skived along the edges, and glued in place would work also.

An inverted seam involves a seam allowance (say about 5mm) skived and stitched right sides together.

Spread the seam allowance, glue it down, and press flat.

A bellows tongue is a good idea, but challenging. I've done a few.

But you sure aren't afraid of challenges. Good on you.

[sepulverture]

I like the idea of a sealant behind the holes. A band of 1 1/2 to 2 ounce leather, skived along the edges, and glued in place would work also.

I have used the silicon method that I mentioned before to back the stitching. I though hard about adding a strip of lining leather to help back it, but I decided against it because when I put it on the last the band was visible on the surface, but I think I will figure out a solution to this in my next pair.

An inverted seam involves a seam allowance (say about 5mm) skived and stitched right sides together.

Spread the seam allowance, glue it down, and press flat.

I did the lining up how I mentioned before, but I think I misunderstood the concept of an inverted seam. However I think that the lining turned out alright.

A bellows tongue is a good idea, but challenging. I've done a few.

I think I more or less got the bellows tongue down here, but i didn't measure it perfectly, so the shape ended up a tad strange, and too wide at the top. A challenge they are indeed, but one that I fully intend to tackle again on my next pair.

But you sure aren't afraid of challenges. Good on you.

Can't grow without challenges and tribulations, right?

On a side note, I am a little bit frustrated with the pattern makers book I ordered. It is a SUPERBLY HELPFUL read, to be sure, but it's advice on a 15mm lasting allowance ended up being a bad call. It is entirely possible that I measured the vamps wrong when I was making my patterns, but with a 15mm last allowance skived to a feather as suggested in multiple pdfs I have read my lasting pliers took a bite out of a few spots around the lasting allowance. Luckily each piece torn off the vamp was no more than 5-7mm each, and could still be worked around to get the thing lasted, but I have concerns for their durability once the welt is in place and the insole stitched. Will need to think of a workaround for this problem.

As a result of the last allowance problem the whole upper went on slightly skewed and wrinkled a bit. I am hoping to work out these wrinkles when I give it a second lasting after adding the stiffeners and adjusting the liner, which bunched up around the top of the quarters a little bit. Pictures though are, as they say, worth a thousand words.

Also an important question. Should the welt be made from upper leather? or sole leather?

If my thinking is right it ought to be sole leather, but I'm not totally sure.

Edited December 17, 2010 by sepulverture

[Leatherimages]

You've done a good job. This is coming together real well. Good on you!

I'm one for more lasting allowance than 15mm. Sometimes it's way more than necessary. It's better to throw a bigger scrap in the bin, than wish and regret.

I don't think there's any reason to skive your lasting allowance. Did I read that right?

As to welt, you want veg tan for that. I actually prefer horsehide for it's tighter fiber. Sole leather is bettern than necessary, but that would deffinitly be better than upper leather.

All in all, you're doing a great job on this first pair. It looks to be sitting on the last well.

Are you using a leather toe box? That's the next challenge.

Keep up the good work.

[sepulverture]

You've done a good job. This is coming together real well. Good on you!

I'm one for more lasting allowance than 15mm. Sometimes it's way more than necessary. It's better to throw a bigger scrap in the bin, than wish and regret.

I don't think there's any reason to skive your lasting allowance. Did I read that right?

As to welt, you want veg tan for that. I actually prefer horsehide for it's tighter fiber. Sole leather is bettern than necessary, but that would deffinitly be better than upper leather.

All in all, you're doing a great job on this first pair. It looks to be sitting on the last well.

Are you using a leather toe box? That's the next challenge.

Keep up the good work.

All of the test lasts I did used lasting allowances at least twice as long. Lesson learned for future endeavors.

I think the book mentioned a 15 mm lasting allowance for economy when doing pattern designing for factories and the like, not sure though.

Unfortunately about the types of tanning for leathers here chrome tan is pretty much the norm, with veg tan not being so widely available. The toe box will indeed be leather. I have already figured out what I will do I think. I am also wondering if having a welt made of heavier or stronger leather will help with the last allowance being damaged in some areas. I also figured out a potential solution to the potential for the holdfast to tear with use. I figure I can put a layer of pig skin over the whole insole but not overlapping the welt on the underside, and then stab holes in it that coincide with the holdfast, that way there will be an extra layer of stronger leather between the stitches and the holdfast, hopefully improving wear.

Since it has a second layer of upper leather in the form of the 'brogue' toe cap I think it would already be able to hold it's shape fairly well, but aware that it's still going to be soft I planned to skive down some of my sole leather to an appropriate thickness, mull it for a while then let it dry for few hours so that it's moist all the way through, but not wet, then apply it like any normal toe box. If what I read is right then I don't need to cut the toe box to extend below the feather edge, right?

Thanks for the compliment

[Leatherimages]

"I think the book mentioned a 15 mm lasting allowance for economy when doing pattern designing for factories and the like, not sure though."

Your conclusion on this is right.

I'm with DW on this. Give me an inch. I'd rather just trim the extra away, rather than worry about it.

(Interestingly there is a current conversation going on right now on the Colloquy in the Lasting thread.

You might identify with the issues.

Check it out)

Your welt shouldn't be over 6 1/2 oz.

I don't really see how the heft or strength of the welt would help with damaged lasting allowance. If the upper has a weakness it could just pull out or continue to tear along the welt line.

What might be better, is to glue in a thin patch of skived leather reinforement on the flesh side of your vamp or liner (wherever your tears are along your welt line) and take another go at it.

Your idea with the pig skin has merit. I use that technique when I'm doing repairs to a weak or damaged insole.

I use a "rip stop" type fabric (picture attached), but I probably have used a thin pig before.

It is a good fix if you're worried about your holdfast tearing out. But of course an appropriate insole leather is always better. But I understand you are working with what you can get.

You're on the right track about how to prepare the toe box leather, casing it like that. You want to work with leather from about 5 oz. to maybe 6 1/2 oz, idealy. Too much over that will be too diificult to shape.

When preparing the toe box, you want a full 3/4" to 1" skive along the edge that will go across the toe. The by laying it atop your toe and bending it over to the edge of the last, you can determine where to begin to skive the lasting allowance edge which will be sewn into the inseam. From this determined edge, you want to skive the lasting margin down to about 3 oz.

That's a pretty awkward instruction, I hope you understand. But yes you should try to catch the edge of your toe box in your inseam.

I think I've got a picture for you.

Maybe you can see how I worked the edge of the box.

Stiffening the veg leather toe box is usually done with celluloid cement. Is that something you can find there?

[sepulverture]

Good news! First boot is done!

Everything turned out quite well with the exception of the area around the welt. When I sculpted the holdfast I sculpted part of it wrong, so the welt didn't sit securely under the holdfast. When I sewed on the welt it sat good and tight against he side of the last on the vamp, but when I turned it down it did tear out a little bit as expected. It's not terrible though, and it's not really noticeable. I am concerned that he vamp will tear out, but not expecting it to for a fair while. Anyway, here are some pictures of the fist boot and the second one is well on it's way.

[Leatherimages]

Nick,

A very respectable job.

I'm eager to see the mate.

Your next pair will be a completely different experience.

Keep up he good work.

And Happy New Year From Stateside!

[sepulverture]

Nick,

A very respectable job.

I'm eager to see the mate.

Your next pair will be a completely different experience.

Keep up he good work.

And Happy New Year From Stateside!

Thanks for the holiday wishes Paul, I hope you and yours had a good season together.

Christmas in China is a downright dreary experience, but fortunately I have the salts of the Earth to keep things in perspective.

Thanks also for the compliments on my work. I was anticipating less, and was pleased to see that it turned out as well as it did. You are right though, the next pair will be an entirely different experience.

I had a question though. When holing the insole for the second pair i tore out two of the holes with too much upward pressure, and was wondering if there are any effective ways to remedy this? I was thinking about skiving some sole leather to just the top grain and using the strongest contact cement i have to patch the area that tore out and then just using a strip of that pig skin to try to reinforce the area, but before doing so I wanted to consult you and see if you had any better suggestions?

Thanks again

Nick

[Leatherimages]

I like your perspective.

I like your whole attitude toward learning,

I think you could be a great shoe/boot maker.

You're on your way.

Your thinking is good for a repair to a breakout like that.

You can also (with your insole probably tempered) back up 1/4" and come at it from a little deeper.

A sharp, polished, inseaming awl, with it's bigger curve than a stitching awl, gives the job a better chance.

I was shown to place my inseaming awl into my channel convex curve rather than concave, if you know what I mean. Point down, enter and twist, coming out at the base of the holdfast. The more consistent you are, in making the hole, the better the stitch line will be clean and straight.

Allowing, that is, the thread to awl sizes are compatible.

There's a chart or something in the Colloquy archives, but the important thing is to use what you have a practice good technique while you look for better tools. It's aprocess.

Show the pair when you're done.

Happy New Year!