Tippman Boss Issues.

[billymac814]

Friday I made a long drive to pick up an older but not really used Boss, It's the cast steel one, I got the machine, stand, edge guide, a few other accessories, thread, needles, and I also got with it a heritage foot pedal press to punch holes and drive spots,rivets, snaps etc and it cames with an auto centering thing.

I really hadn't planned on getting a machine, but I've got quite a few orders and hand sewing just isn't cutting it anymore. I couldn't afford anything else at this point, and I got this whole set up for just about the cost of the accessories that came with the boss.

I've wasted all day yesterday getting it set up and I got it to where it lays perfect stitches when it does, but the problem is occasionally the thread wont create the loop for the shuttle hook to pick it up, that problem is annoying, but I found a way that I hold the thread as its pulling up and it'll catch it. I'm using 277 thread and have tried several needles that are supposed to be correct for that thread. I've also tried several others that came with it. It would seem to me that either the needle thread is too tight, or the needle is to big, but I've adjusted for both.

The biggest problem is sometimes it splits the thread and gets all jammed up. I don't know whats causing this, I've tried everything I could search of on here and the tippman site/videos, etc.

Another thing I'm wondering is that I always waxed my thread when hand sewing, Is that necessary with this machine somehow? I could get a lube pot, but I want to know if its needed first.

I ordered some newer needles- it looks like my manual recommends a different size than the site does, so I'm not sure what that means. I also ordered white thread, since it only came with black.

I've made every adjustment that their site says, There is a part of the video that says if your machine is fraying thread that a small adjustment might be needed but they don't give the adjustment, they just give a phone number. I'm not sure if when it pierces the thread if that is considered fraying, but it does fray the thread. I'm going to call them tomorrow and see if they have any suggestions, I thought I'd try here first so hopefully I can get this up and running before I loose much more time.

If anyone can be any help that would be great. Telling me I should have bought an electric machine for 5 times as much doesn't help though. My plans are to use this, get accustomed to how a machine works, sell it for more than I paid for it and then buy something bigger when the time comes.

[bubbajdv]

Well, I feel your frustration! I too have had many a fight with a good machine and lost. Here are some general recomendations for you to try: First, pull all the thread out of your machine, get a clean bobbin and wind it up. Then re-thread your machine with the book in hand step by step. Next loosen all tensions, you want to get the machine "sitiching" then worry about what the stitches look like later. Lube is a good thing though not really necessary at this point. Make sure the presser foot has enough tension to hold the work down to the table, but not too much to leave marks on the material. If there is a timing issue, ie the needle bar is in the wrong place you can try dropping the needle a bit to see if that help pick up the loop, then you will know you need to adjust if it works. Also my Singer machines are very finicky about left hand or right hand twist thread, make sure your thread is proper. See if that helps, I'm no expert, just my $.02

Friday I made a long drive to pick up an older but not really used Boss, It's the cast steel one, I got the machine, stand, edge guide, a few other accessories, thread, needles, and I also got with it a heritage foot pedal press to punch holes and drive spots,rivets, snaps etc and it cames with an auto centering thing.

I really hadn't planned on getting a machine, but I've got quite a few orders and hand sewing just isn't cutting it anymore. I couldn't afford anything else at this point, and I got this whole set up for just about the cost of the accessories that came with the boss.

I've wasted all day yesterday getting it set up and I got it to where it lays perfect stitches when it does, but the problem is occasionally the thread wont create the loop for the shuttle hook to pick it up, that problem is annoying, but I found a way that I hold the thread as its pulling up and it'll catch it. I'm using 277 thread and have tried several needles that are supposed to be correct for that thread. I've also tried several others that came with it. It would seem to me that either the needle thread is too tight, or the needle is to big, but I've adjusted for both.

The biggest problem is sometimes it splits the thread and gets all jammed up. I don't know whats causing this, I've tried everything I could search of on here and the tippman site/videos, etc.

Another thing I'm wondering is that I always waxed my thread when hand sewing, Is that necessary with this machine somehow? I could get a lube pot, but I want to know if its needed first.

I ordered some newer needles- it looks like my manual recommends a different size than the site does, so I'm not sure what that means. I also ordered white thread, since it only came with black.

I've made every adjustment that their site says, There is a part of the video that says if your machine is fraying thread that a small adjustment might be needed but they don't give the adjustment, they just give a phone number. I'm not sure if when it pierces the thread if that is considered fraying, but it does fray the thread. I'm going to call them tomorrow and see if they have any suggestions, I thought I'd try here first so hopefully I can get this up and running before I loose much more time.

If anyone can be any help that would be great. Telling me I should have bought an electric machine for 5 times as much doesn't help though. My plans are to use this, get accustomed to how a machine works, sell it for more than I paid for it and then buy something bigger when the time comes.

[billymac814]

I've tried all of those steps as well as a few others. Do you mean moving just the needle down? I've adjusted the stop with not much luck. I'm wondering about the thread though, If I twist it clockwise it comes undone. I would guess that to be left hand thread. The thread I have is Nylon BB Bond H #4, size 277 P/n 50-0277-bk from Weavers. I don't know if that is the proper thread or not. I have it threaded exactly as it's shown in the manual, however I read a thread stating they changed how it is supposed to be threaded but I couldn't find any further details on that.

I can't wait to get this thing running right. I'm sure to some that the Boss would be tedious to use without being powered, but from someone who handstitched everything this thing is going to save a ton of time and should pay for itself and a bigger machine quite quickly.

[bubbajdv]

Yes, move the needle down just a little then tighten it, if the timing is off then this may help the thread pick up instead of skip. This is a temporary thing to see if it works. Powered or not if the machine is right for you then that's all that matters.

I've tried all of those steps as well as a few others. Do you mean moving just the needle down? I've adjusted the stop with not much luck. I'm wondering about the thread though, If I twist it clockwise it comes undone. I would guess that to be left hand thread. The thread I have is Nylon BB Bond H #4, size 277 P/n 50-0277-bk from Weavers. I don't know if that is the proper thread or not. I have it threaded exactly as it's shown in the manual, however I read a thread stating they changed how it is supposed to be threaded but I couldn't find any further details on that.

I can't wait to get this thing running right. I'm sure to some that the Boss would be tedious to use without being powered, but from someone who handstitched everything this thing is going to save a ton of time and should pay for itself and a bigger machine quite quickly.

[billymac814]

I've adjusted the stop that dictates how far the needle travels, I'll try to move the needle down some. I got it working about 90% of the time. It seems like what is happening is the thread is pulling back up with the needle and not creating the loop, I'm wondering if the needle isn't too large. My manual says to use a 230 with 277 but thier site says 200 with the 277 thread. All I have is what came with it and they are 230's. I ordered a pack of the 200's so hopefully they come quickly and I'll try that. It would make sense if its creating to big of a hole and the thread comes back through it before looping. I'm hoping the fraying of the thread is caused by an improper loop and it just splits the thread.

[Wizcrafts]

I've adjusted the stop that dictates how far the needle travels, I'll try to move the needle down some. I got it working about 90% of the time. It seems like what is happening is the thread is pulling back up with the needle and not creating the loop, I'm wondering if the needle isn't too large. My manual says to use a 230 with 277 but thier site says 200 with the 277 thread. All I have is what came with it and they are 230's. I ordered a pack of the 200's so hopefully they come quickly and I'll try that. It would make sense if its creating to big of a hole and the thread comes back through it before looping. I'm hoping the fraying of the thread is caused by an improper loop and it just splits the thread.

You are right on with that analysis! You #230 needle is meant for $346 bonded thread, or 6 cord linen. The hole it makes is so large that the thread is not able to stay down and form a loop as the needle ascends. A #200/25 needle is perfect for #277 or 4 cord thread.

There is a workaround that you can try, until the #200 leather point needles arrive. I have no knowledge about the thread path on a Boss stitcher, so this is generic.

See if the thread goes around a slack take-up spring after leaving the main tension disks. The thread would leave the bottom of this wire spring and feed up to the take-up lever. There will be at least one adjustment, if not two, for the start and stop positions of the spring. Find the screws that secure this spring and any stop collar under it and rotate the stops or positioners to reduce the travel of the slack spring. Make sure there is still sufficient tension of the spring to hold the thread as the take-up lever moves down.

Hopefully, by reducing the travel of the slack spring, you'll allow the thread in the needle to have more free slack, and it just may form a loop in the bigger needle.

[billymac814]

Thanks for the suggestion, although I was going through all the needles I got with it I found a 200 needle. It is just a round point one, not the chisel poing but I figured I'd give it a try and it hasn't missed a beat yet. I think i'll give it a go with that until the other ones arrives. Hopefully it won't take them long to ship it, they are in Ohio so it's only a day away by UPS so long as they ship it quickly. I'm sure it'll jam up or something as soon as I put a real holster in it instead of scrap, but so far so good, The chisel point looks slightly better than the round, but it'll do for a few holsters I suppose. I've learned a lot the past 2 days on how sewing machines work, I'm sure the Boss is a great stepping stone prior to stepping up to a powered machine.

I am wondering if I should get the lube pot though. I'm not sure the advantages of it put I'm open to suggestions.

[bubbajdv]

I'm sure glad you are getting it going! I use a silicone lube on my high speed Singers to keep the needle cool and the stitches tight. This gave a slight performance increase and kept the nylon thread from whipping too bad. On my heavy shoe stitchers I use lube because i am using heavy cotton A5 thread and stitching 1/2 inch of leather so it is necessary. On your machine I don't think you will see much of an advantage as it is a slow machine and I don't think you would want oil on your holsters? Good find on the needle sizing, there is a quick guide on this site, do a search and I have found it useful. Good luck and happy sewing!

Thanks for the suggestion, although I was going through all the needles I got with it I found a 200 needle. It is just a round point one, not the chisel poing but I figured I'd give it a try and it hasn't missed a beat yet. I think i'll give it a go with that until the other ones arrives. Hopefully it won't take them long to ship it, they are in Ohio so it's only a day away by UPS so long as they ship it quickly. I'm sure it'll jam up or something as soon as I put a real holster in it instead of scrap, but so far so good, The chisel point looks slightly better than the round, but it'll do for a few holsters I suppose. I've learned a lot the past 2 days on how sewing machines work, I'm sure the Boss is a great stepping stone prior to stepping up to a powered machine.

I am wondering if I should get the lube pot though. I'm not sure the advantages of it put I'm open to suggestions.

[billymac814]

Thanks everyone, I stitched a holster with it in about 5 min, I wouldn't even have prepared the thread for hand sewing in 5 min. It looks OK but not quite as good as my hand stitching did, I'm sure I'll get better though.

[TwinOaks]

pics?

[billymac814]

pics?

I figured that was coming. I'll post one when I finish it.

Here's the same holster as I'm making, this one was handstitched. I got quite a few other orders for these as well. They don't take long to stitch really but there's a welt in there so it's pretty thick to stab through, and I hate prepareing the thread to thread the needles.

This one was a basic black (vinegaroon). I have some others that should look nicer when done.

[billymac814]

I just found another thread that says to go around the secondary tensioner a full wrap, in my manual, it shows just going around the back, I'm going to also try that and see if I can get my stitches looking a bit better. I sewed another one, and had a few issues, nothing major, just annoyances. I'll probably just start from scratch with the tension since it'll probably change some with going around the whole way.

[TwinOaks]

No prob, I'm just interested because I have a Boss that should be here either Mon. or Tues., and I'm gonna be using it for holsters too. Your thread was very informative for me, and it's just one more little thing to look for. I was just curious about the stitches from the Boss, that's all.

[billymac814]

No prob, I'm just interested because I have a Boss that should be here either Mon. or Tues., and I'm gonna be using it for holsters too. Your thread was very informative for me, and it's just one more little thing to look for. I was just curious about the stitches from the Boss, that's all.

It's been quite the adventure, mostly just a learning curve i'm sure, this is my first experience with a machine. The stitches don't look near what hand stitching does, but I think that is more my fault than the Boss's. Also I'm not using the right needle for leather, I'm using the round point one until my other ones get here.

There's another thread if you haven't found it already that is very informative http://leatherworker...%20%20boss&st=0

Mine is the old steel one, the manual I got with it is old as well, it tells me to go just around the back of the secondary tensioner yet the new manual online says to go all the way around, when I go all the way around it eventually slips through the disks and wraps around the bolt and is very tight, and doesn't work right. So I'm not really sure what to do.

Edited October 11, 2010 by billymac814

[bubbajdv]

THere is a learning curve you will have to go through with every machine. Be patient and if you have to write stuff down. I have 6 sewing machines now all with their own little quirks, it just takes time to get it right! Have fun!

Thanks everyone, I stitched a holster with it in about 5 min, I wouldn't even have prepared the thread for hand sewing in 5 min. It looks OK but not quite as good as my hand stitching did, I'm sure I'll get better though.

[oldtimer]

I have modified my old cast iron Boss by adding a spring that keeps tension on the top thread ( from a new model Boss, AR-49 is the part #) . The spring puts tension upwards on the take up arm and takes out all slack during the whole sewing cycle. There was a slack on the top thread that created a loop just above the needle foot and that caused skipped stitches. The spring is cheap and was easy to install .

[Brian]

I have modified my old cast iron Boss by adding a spring that keeps tension on the top thread ( from a new model Boss, AR-49 is the part #) . The spring puts tension upwards on the take up arm and takes out all slack during the whole sewing cycle. There was a slack on the top thread that created a loop just above the needle foot and that caused skipped stitches. The spring is cheap and was easy to install .

Do you have a pic for this mod?

Thanks

Brian

www.nittanyleather.com

[busted]

It's been quite the adventure, mostly just a learning curve i'm sure, this is my first experience with a machine. The stitches don't look near what hand stitching does, but I think that is more my fault than the Boss's. Also I'm not using the right needle for leather, I'm using the round point one until my other ones get here.

There's another thread if you haven't found it already that is very informative http://leatherworker...%20%20boss&st=0

Mine is the old steel one, the manual I got with it is old as well, it tells me to go just around the back of the secondary tensioner yet the new manual online says to go all the way around, when I go all the way around it eventually slips through the disks and wraps around the bolt and is very tight, and doesn't work right. So I'm not really sure what to do.

The older machines are cast iron. Not steel. They are better than the newer aluminum frames in mho.

Do you have a sharpening stone?? If you do put a leather point on the round point needle.

Edited November 3, 2010 by busted

[colt1911]

I just recieved my new Boss about a week and a half ago. I took advantage of the holiday sale they had goin on. One problem i noticed right off the bat is my primary and secondary tensioner adjustment nuts kept backing off. I ripped out and resewed 5 or 6 stitches because they were way too loose. I bought 2 nylock nuts to run down on top of the tensioner adjustments to keep them from backing off and that fixed it right up. Other than that, i love my new boss....it sure cuts down on sewing time compared to hand stitching.

[Matchlock]

Hi;

DO NOT use the LUbe Pot if you are sewing leather. The Lube Pot for the Tippmann Boss is for use on items such as rubber, and some other "grab-the-needle" fabrics. Once again, DO NOT use lube of any kind when sewing leather with a Tippmann Boss machine. I had a Boss so I do know a little bout them. heck with them if you want but I tell you the truth.

Bud

Thanks for the suggestion, although I was going through all the needles I got with it I found a 200 needle. It is just a round point one, not the chisel poing but I figured I'd give it a try and it hasn't missed a beat yet. I think i'll give it a go with that until the other ones arrives. Hopefully it won't take them long to ship it, they are in Ohio so it's only a day away by UPS so long as they ship it quickly. I'm sure it'll jam up or something as soon as I put a real holster in it instead of scrap, but so far so good, The chisel point looks slightly better than the round, but it'll do for a few holsters I suppose. I've learned a lot the past 2 days on how sewing machines work, I'm sure the Boss is a great stepping stone prior to stepping up to a powered machine.

I am wondering if I should get the lube pot though. I'm not sure the advantages of it put I'm open to suggestions.

[Geneva]

The older machines are cast iron. They are definitely the better machine. Your machine likes the polyester thread better than the nylon or at least mine did. The 7x3 (canvas point) or 4 (leather point) needle in the 20 to 25 size will work too. Yes wrap the thread around the tension disc 1 and 1/2 times before going to the spring take up. Your machine will function much better if you have it bolted to a solid foundation or the horse that it is sold with. Pull the handle like you mean it don't be lackadaisical pulling the handle. Matchlock is correct about the lube pot don't get one. Good luck

[mlapaglia]

Both good advice. This is a 2 year old thread so he probably got it working.