Vinegaroon toolbag

[rdb]

So I started making a sample toolbag for motorcycles, and decided it would be perfect for a vinegaroon test. I had my pickle jar full of rusty nails and vinegar for a few weeks now, and had to use it.

I started by sewing the bag up first, I was going to just oil it black in a dip, but decided to try this. Notice the stitching stayed white.

Poured out the vinegar mixture in a big plastic tub, and started dipping it. Some spots didn't take at first...probably oil from fingers and such and especially over the glue drops (reminder to self...be neater). Next time, I'll clean the bag first.

I took a little up in my fingers, and rubbed it on the spots, and soon, everything took.

(Warning...don't do this inside..it stinks, and make sure you have a place to air dry it outside somewhere. It's been about 8 hrs, and the smell has gone down by 50%...probably take a few days. So no emergency jobs with this method!

PS: I immersed it in a baking soda dip afterwards. Supposedly that neutralizes the vinegar action.

So as you can see, the color came solid, and when I oil it, it should be a real nice black. Unbelievable easy, good color saturation, and smooth full black. I'll give it a few days, and finish it up with some ss spots and conchos. I'll post the finished pic here then, but I couldn't wait to show this...it worked real good so far.

[tazzmann]

That looks really good. I have a pickle jar full that I am waiting to try out. I also have another jar "distilling".

[rdb]

That looks really good. I have a pickle jar full that I am waiting to try out. I also have another jar "distilling".

Try it out. I know the last thread on this had a bunch of people that were going to do this, but I haven't seen any actual stuff shown here. The more, the merrier.

I'm gonna mix up a gallon next time.

[Crystal]

Wow - very cool. I read that earlier post with the recipe and wondered if it would work. No stained hands. Even color. Just pretty neat. Thanks for showing the results!

Crystal

[TwinOaks]

To quote Henry Ford: You can have any color you want...as long as it's black.

Mine is still brewing, but should reach maturity this weekend. I was tempted to use it on a holster I did last weekend, but since it was my 1st PAID job, I thought I might just go with traditional dying. Wouldn't want the holster to strip the finish off the pistol within the first week or anything like that. I do have a question about the vinegaroon, too. Is it really necessary to neutralize it, or is it possible that the acid is 'used up' in the reaction process?

[Roger]

WOW!! very cool!! i missed the other post on this. i guess i'll have to look it up.

[rdb]

beeza.. i think these are the ones:

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=1352

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=2331

[Roger]

thanks for the links! i'll have to check it out for sure!!

[rdb]

I finished this up, so here's how it looks. I'm still working on the design of the bag, so don't expect too much....

All I did was neatsfoot it, let that dry, then a good coating of mink oil. SS spots, and buckles.

I am happy with the black, it's a real nice biker black, and without a bright finish, it's a real biker flat black, that would look good with any old school piece of iron.

[Luke Hatley]

GOOD LOOKING BIKER BLACK......... i like it.

have you cut into the leather to see how deep the peneration of the color was ?

[rdb]

GOOD LOOKING BIKER BLACK......... i like it.

have you cut into the leather to see how deep the peneration of the color was ?

I soaked it pretty good, and it went deep. I've already scratched the bag, and seen nothing but black.

[Ian]

Nice edges, Dave, A+

[rdb]

Thanx Ian. I don't even think about edges anymore, they're just second nature...lol.

By the way, everyone, the vinegar smell has gone down a lot, but still not gone. It's still outside airing out. According to all I've heard, it will. We'll have to see. That will be the final thumbs up or down.

[ChuckBurrows]

the vinegar smell has gone down a lot, but still not gone. It's still outside airing out. According to all I've heard, it will

Did you do the baking soda and water wash? This will virtually eliminate the smell in no time at all as well bring the PH back into balance...

Nicely done and the best part - no rub off....

Edited May 2, 2008 by ChuckBurrows

[rdb]

I did do the baking soda, as I said up above. I may have soaked it in the vinegar too long, and in the soda, too short. If it's not all gone tomorrow, I'll probably dip it in soda again, then re mink oil it.

I really feel this is an excellent process, and I want it to work. I think seatmakers/beltmakers might have a big advantage with this. No rub off, deep penetration, the ability to make the whole thing, and dip it after...all good things.

[Hilly]

Nice work. Thanks for sharing.

I wonder if you can do the vinegaroon dye first, and then carve and tool? I mean, really soak the leather in the dye, do the baking soda rinse, let it dry, and then carve and tool, and see nothing but black? Might have to give it a try some time.

[Beaverslayer]

That turned out real fine rdb, the black is actually one I like, not that shiny we all know and hate. Thanks for doing the test project and letting us all know the results.

Ken

[sodapop]

i really like the way it turned out...doesn't have the "i just bought it new today" look...nice

rdb on the straps are those domed rivets or chicago screws??

darryl

[Shorts]

That came out real nice. I've done test pieces, but yet to do it on a holster. I'm still trying to figure out what to use for the oil step to darken it, or if I should just acrylic coat it and seal it the color that it dries.

[TwinOaks]

I used it on a holster for an 'N' frame Smith. see here. It came out very well using Aussie. You won't have to seal the leather. It's not a black coating that can wear off. After this treatment, it's BLACK leather. On a test piece, cut through it, or skive it and you'll see how deep the color runs.

[rdb]

For the record...this is the third day after dyeing, and the smell has gone away. It is amazingly waterproof, not weatherproof. Twin Oaks was trying to discover the chemistry of it, I can't answer to that, but I do know, that I gave it a second bath of baking soda, and the liquid just washed off the top grain, and on the flesh side just beaded up. Nothing need be applied as a protective finish. Water just runs off. It actually held water in the bag with not a drop coming out. AMAZING!.

I did give it another coat of Mink oil, and it buffs out nice to a flat black. I think I will never use another method for doing black again. Nothing rubs off...even color, waterproof, and no black on my hands or bench.

Seatmakers take notice!

I can't wait until I can find a source for walnut shells. Homer says.."hmmmm...Brown!"

[ChuckBurrows]

I can't wait until I can find a source for walnut shells. Homer says.."hmmmm...Brown!"

here's one source - Grand River Trading Co www.kylecarrollart.com

Be aware walnut color will generally run more to a greyish brown rather than a true brown

For brown you can also use logwood crystals or something I've been experimenting with - just dunk the plain leather in a bath of baking soda and water - depending on time immersed, strength of mix, and the leather I've gotten from a nice tan to a dark almost black brown. Like the vinegaroon it will "harden/stiffen" the leather (aniline dyes do to..) so the piece must be well re-conditioned. So far for me it's tough to control though so I suggest using a test piece of the same leather and counting down the time.

When using the vinegaroon I: dunk, let set until all the liquid is absorbed, dunk again, let set, then rinse off (distilled water is best since no extra chemicals), dunk in baking soda and water mix, rinse again with water, wipe off excess moisture and then add a coat of conditioner (I generally use Lexol or Non-Greasy Neatsfoot depending on the look/need/end use). Let half dry and condition again while damp. For a finish coat I may use Bag Kote or Montana Pitchblend again dependent on look/need. The tough outer surface is IMO from the leather "tightening" up due to the chemical reaction and the loss of conditioner. Be sure and re-condition otherwise crackling of the surface can happen.

[rdb]

I was hoping you'ld chime in Chuck...thanks. I know you've had a bunch of experience with this stuff. I see logwood crystals are available from suppliers of trapping equipment...just might have to try some.

We have to depend on each other for this info. Google vinegaroon dye, and you find very little info, even in their Scholar searches, none of the scientists seem to have anything about it. A few other forums discuss it, but not too in depth.

A search under "natural dyes on leather" has a lot more info, well worth exploring.

We take a lot of heat for using leather nowadays, and have very few alternatives to "green up" our business. There is no PBS Woodright guy for leatherworkers (although that would be a great show!).

Unless you become an expert tanner, silversmith, foundry buckle and hardware maker, etc, we have to rely on the usual sources.

Not everyone has the location or space to do their own raising animals, skinning, then "brain tanning", to keep it natural. Me for one, I'll try and incorporate as many of these things as I can. As far as this one is concerned, maybe the old way just might be best even in this modern world.

Thanx everyone for participating in this discussion. Between the other two Topic discussions, and this one, I hope there's a few adventurers, who'll report on their findings in another Topic.

[TwinOaks]

This is heading just where I hoped it would- Other Colors. I'm really impressed with the tonal qualities of doing leather this way, and I'm hoping someone will have a suggestion for other colors. Why oh Why didn't I pay more attention in Chemistry.....

[TroyWest]

Hey rdb,

Glad you found success using this recipe. Didn't you find it cheap, efficient, and effective?

The things I have dyed with this method look great, feel great, and have no negative smell at all. I actually have orders for some saddles I'll be coloring this way. There are many old saddles dyed this way with all types of hardware attached.Iron, bronze, silver, etc. and they haven't disentegrated. I am glad Chuck Burrows added his comments as he obviously has more experience with this method than I do. Thanks for posting your pictures and comments. It will be a few months before I have a saddle dyed this way, but I'll try to get a picture up.

Troy West