Deer Rawhide

[blackhammer]

Howdo all. So deer season is about to get started around these parts and i will have access to a stack of fresh hides. Has anyone ever made rawhide out of deer skin? If so, are there any special considerations or areas of attention versus cow hide such as slippin hair? Anyone ever braided with deer rawhide? I figure if i can make this stuff work I might have a ready supply of raw material for finer strings. Or I could be wrong. Thanks in advance.

[roo4u]

i has been mentioned before....i think the opinion was its too stretchy and breaks easily....you could do a forum search and maybe find out more

[blackhammer]

i has been mentioned before....i think the opinion was its too stretchy and breaks easily....you could do a forum search and maybe find out more

Thanks. I'll see what I can find.

Edited November 11, 2010 by blackhammer

[Denise]

It is too stretchy to braid with - won't keep consistent width due to that fact - but it is very strong and doesn't break easily. Great to use for stitching rawhide onto saddle trees! There is a lot more hair relative to the hide, and they float, so you have to weight them down to keep them in the water/solution.

[blackhammer]

It is too stretchy to braid with - won't keep consistent width due to that fact - but it is very strong and doesn't break easily. Great to use for stitching rawhide onto saddle trees! There is a lot more hair relative to the hide, and they float, so you have to weight them down to keep them in the water/solution.

Thanks a bunch. Disappointing to hear but it will save me a lot of effort. Back to the cows I go!

[Aggiebraider]

So I completely forgot to post this, but I found some interesting information over Christmas break when I was home at my grandfathers. He bought the new Ortega book at the Congress this year and in reading through it he showed me a set of romal reins that were made I think in the 40s that were made completely out of deer rawhide, buttons and all. They looked to be perfectly fine and were actually a very nice set, especially for how old they were. They did look to be used at one point, and I am not sure who owns them now or if they are in a museum. I think most people (myself included) relate the stretch associated with deerskin to what would also be seen in deer rawhide. I am not sure as I have never tried it, but the stretch may get taken out at least to a little extent by making it into rawhide rather than brain tanning it to turn it into conventional deerskin. Having seen that, I wouldnt be afraid to try it if you have experience making rawhide from cows.

Have a good one,

CW

[Denise]

Calvin, believe me, it stretches!! We use it all the time to lace trees together. Very strong, but VERY stretchy. Rod stretches the hide to dry it, then we case it and make string. But when he soaks it (soaking wet) to use as lace it will get about 1/3rd or so longer again when you pull on it, and of course it gets substantially narrower too. Rod has also braided with deer rawhide back in his younger days before he knew better. Not good results. He says maybe if you could get all the stretch out of it before you cut the lace it may work. For a master like Ortega, he could probably braid anything and make it look good. I'm not saying don't try it because it is amazing what results people can come up with when they don't know a thing can't be done. But you do need to figure out what to do about the stretch factor because it is substantial in comparison with cow and calf hide.

[KnotHead]

Hi all.

I know that Enrique Capone prepares his own deer rawhide and has made a few projects with it. He's on Face Book here is his profile if you would like to get in touch with him. He's a very nice guy to talk to. He live in Texas.

Enrique Capone - FB Profile Link

Here a photo of the key fob he made with his deer raw hide. Maybe he might be able to help you out.

B...

[Handwerker]

Hi all,

looks verry good !!!

....is that 1 Knot or a second one over the first

Arno

[KnotHead]

It actually looks like it's all one knot Arno. But to be sure you should ask Enrique.

Brian...

[troy]

well learn something new every day - uptil now I thought rawhide from all hides stretched like deer - as it was the only readily avaliable from my parts its all I have used apart from a couple of cows for ropes but even they stretched slightly (due I think mostly to being coreless).

So ye, I guess it does stretch and I tried to over come this as best I could by allowing it to dry quite a bit until it was a sort semi cardboard consistancy before tightening a braid such as below;

but as can be seem from this;

the stretch factor does deteriate the whole effect slightly. Usually I use or did use rawhide for its strink characteristics once tied and I do tend to tie my knot tight altho I did find that dyeing the hide with veg dyes like black oak did slightly stiffen the hide as a whole up a bit - I used to treat my hides like buckskin as well by soaking it in a kind of brain mixture and hand stretching for a bit but this was only to create a softer appearance and obviously made the stretch problem worse by loosing up the fibres even more. In the end black hammer, like you I had a ready supply of the hides and it cost alot less to make my own then buy.

Of course if you freese the hide when de-haired and still wet, then de-frosed and stretch, this did tend to stiffen it a bit - Refs de-hairing, after about my third hide I used ash from my fire in a big waste bin (instead of the chemicals which were not avaliable near to me)and soak the hides in that for about a week or less in hot weather (not a often occurance here)stirring around about twice a day to ensure all the hide got covered - found the neck hair the worse to remove where the skin is thickest and sometimes I would cut this off rather then wait a few more days when the hide might of gone off (your know by the smell - its terrible).

Another thing that might help with keeping with inproving the stiffness of deer rawhide is to leave the thin whitish layer of skin on on the hair side - usually this is kept on for making buckskin which gives it that textured appearance - I have never tried it but it might help.

so are you all telling me that horse hide does not strink even when damp?

[ifoo]

Hi all,

looks verry good !!!

....is that 1 Knot or a second one over the first

Arno

I think that more than two knots, but some of them not visible.

I also know Enrique Capone from another forum. I can say that it is a great guy who is always ready to help.

Edited January 4, 2011 by ifoo

[lilpep]

just my two cents about Enrique's knot, it is what argentines call "bomba carcelera" it is a ring knot foundation and a the outer part is a "wrapping" with one more lace. the outer wrapping is a sort of hitching i myself haven't made one but here is a link to where you can find a few pics of the way it is made http://www.armasblancas.com.ar/foros/el-taller-de-soguero/19761-ver-si-me-echan-una-mano.html

its in spanish but a couple of posts down the thread are the pics from an argentine book that the moderator of that subforum posted.

[miguelm]

just my two cents about Enrique's knot, it is what argentines call "bomba carcelera" it is a ring knot foundation and a the outer part is a "wrapping" with one more lace. the outer wrapping is a sort of hitching i myself haven't made one but here is a link to where you can find a few pics of the way it is made http://www.armasblan...n-una-mano.html

its in spanish but a couple of posts down the thread are the pics from an argentine book that the moderator of that subforum posted.

Gracias Jorge, tus aportes en A.B son muy apreciados. Acaba de salir a la venta la sexta edicion del Faudone " el arte gaucho....", los ejemplares se le pueden encargar directamente a Maria, su sobrina en:

http://www.elartegau...do.blogspot.com

un saludo.

Thanks Jorge, your contributions are greatly appreciated AB. Just on sale Faudone the sixth edition of "gaucho art ....", copies you can order directly to Maria, his niece:

http://www.elartegau...do.blogspot.com

a greeting.

Google translation added by Denise

[lilpep]

Miguel muchisimas gracias por el dato del libro de Faudone. tengo un ejemplar en digital pero seria bueno ver como anda la sexta edicion.

translation: Miguel thanks alot for the info about Faudone's book, i got a digital copy but it would be nice to see the sixth edition.

thank you Denise for the translation.

Faudone was a great Argentine braider that contributed alot to the art of rawhide braiding, sadly he passed away without publishing a book but his niece compiled his notes and published a book in his memory. the down side of that is that the book has some mistakes in the run lists but the contents and drawings make it a great addition to any braiders library.

[Bevan]

Calvin, believe me, it stretches!! We use it all the time to lace trees together. Very strong, but VERY stretchy. Rod stretches the hide to dry it, then we case it and make string. But when he soaks it (soaking wet) to use as lace it will get about 1/3rd or so longer again when you pull on it, and of course it gets substantially narrower too. Rod has also braided with deer rawhide back in his younger days before he knew better. Not good results. He says maybe if you could get all the stretch out of it before you cut the lace it may work. For a master like Ortega, he could probably braid anything and make it look good. I'm not saying don't try it because it is amazing what results people can come up with when they don't know a thing can't be done. But you do need to figure out what to do about the stretch factor because it is substantial in comparison with cow and calf hide.

Gday Denise ,

I have not used Dear Rawhide but what process did Rod use to get the stretch out ??

I use a lot of roo and now a bit of rawhide , and i cut my strings twice the size than what i want them, after all the stretch is taken out i resize them to the size strings i want to plait with ,, please dont get me wrong , i have never used dear as i said before but does it keep stretching after it has been stretched and then resized ??

Cheers

Bevan

www.bwrwhips.com

[Denise]

I don't know what he did when he braided with it. That was long before my time. We don't braid with it now either. Rod makes the rawhide and stretches it on a frame to dry, so it has some stretch out of it that way. We cut our lace after casing and let it dry again, but to use it to sew the rawhide on trees, he throws it in a bucket of water and gets it soaking wet again - a lot different than braiders do. But when he starts to use it he will manually stretch it and it will stretch 1/2 to 1/3rd longer than it was before it was rewetted. Then when he stitches with it an pulls it down, it gets even thinner. Comparing deerhide laced trees to trees laced with calf hide, the calf hide is thicker and doesn't pull down as tightly, which in my mind says it isn't as stretchy. If you were going to braid something with a stretchier hide, what would you do to get the stretch out?

[blackhammer]

I really appreciate all the replies. As it happens, the deer harvest wasn't quite to standard. Was however gifted an elk hide from a friends recent colorado trip. It has turned out to be pretty nice to work with.