Shovel Cantle

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

I am posting, with permission, bits of some e-mails we have been exchanging with a saddle maker.

When Rod says he has heard three definitions for a "shovel" cantle (one is round, one is spade shaped, and one is a Taylor), I'm a little unclear. I've always heard a "shovel cantle" defined by the shape of its top line. A shovel cantle being widest at its base. Usually 9 1/2" to 10 1/2", but the same shape. A spade shovel also being widest at its base, with a slight "peak" at the top of it. I've never seen either of these with more than an inch of dish, same as the Taylor. A shovel cantle with more than an inch of dish would not be fun to ride because, by definition they are narrow like a spade shovel.

And I'll say this, in all of my conversations over the years the term "shovel cantle" meant that it was widest at its base. And, the term "spade shovel" meant that as well, except that it had a slight peak at the top. At least in the California, Oregon, and Nevada region. That's mind blowing! Sheridan would be a great place to do a Shovel Cantle survey. Keep track of were the people you ask are from. There must be someone who knows the history of the "shovel" cantle. Keep in mind that by definition Shovel Cantle doesn't mean spade. There is Shovel and Spade shovel. At least by my definition, but I am perfectly willing to be wrong on the issue.

So, lets try the survey here. What have you all heard as the definition of “shovel cantle” and what area of the country or world did you get it from?

[bruce johnson]

I have heard the definiton that it is widest at the base. Not sure from who. It is a little more defineable than another I heard. "It's narrow, and high, and no dish, I just know it when I see it". I might suggest we open this up just a wee bit and define how we each determine a regular vs. shovel vs. Taylor as well.

[D.A. Kabatoff]

Hi guys,

interesting topic... I have always liked the old saddles with cantle shapes that could be considered shovel or spade in shape. I think it'd be very difficult to nail down definitions for these cantles because the shapes have evolved alot over the years. The best idea I could come up with was to look at some of the cantle shapes from influential saddleries like Visalia and Main & Winchester. I looked through a good number of photos from some of the old saddleries and have posted a few pictures of cantles that would fit with modern ideas of what spade and shovel cantles should look like.

Something I found interesting is that almost none of the photos I looked at had their widest point at the very base of the cantle where it attaches to the bars. There seems to be a slight curl under at the lowest point, with the widest point being between 1 - 3 inches above this point. I have had cantles on modern trees that truly are widest at the point the cantle meets the bars... Something I noticed building on trees like that is that it changes where the ear of the seat lies and makes it more difficult to tuck it in close to the side of the cantle.

Some of the cantles pictured may be more round in shape but i've included them because they seem to be part of the evolution of spade and shovel cantles... not really sure which would've come first. There are also a couple photos of modern trees that were deemed to be shovel in shape... you can be the judge if they fit the bill.

Darc

[bruce johnson]

Darcy,

Thanks for the pics. Here are some from an older Visalia I have in for a cosmetic restoration. The cantle measures 12-1/2x6. It is serial number 24589. Not sure exactly where that dates it, I need to call Griff. It is a pretty cool old saddle.

[RyanCope]

I learned about the shovel cantle from cowboys and not saddlemakers, so my definition may not be historically accurate. Having said that, I would say that in my region a shovel cantle would be defined by it's shape. The widest point being at the base. A semi-shovel having its slightly wider point just above the base, and a round cantle being much wider 1/3 of the way up the cantle. I believe a "Taylor cantle" refers to the lack of dish (1" or less), which allows for different bar cuts where the cantle is attached ( or vice verse). My version is narrow, not wide( 9 1/2" to 11 1/2"), and has little to no dish. They often have a bevel along to top. Shovel cantles make it easier to shift body position in the saddle, even at a trot. It also lightens up the saddle a bit, depending on how narrow it is. Which is why they are so popular with a lot of guys in the Great Basin and surrounding areas. Maybe it is a phenomenon, fad, or just a contemporary version, but I would say it is the perceived definition of a shovel cantle where I come from. I have seen quite a few Visalias that fit this description.

Ryan Cope

[greg gomersall]

I was taught a shovel cantle should be 9 3/4" wide at the points with the maximum width at the widest part of 11". Maximum 3/4" dish and can be either round topped or pointed. This type of cantle looks better stood up in the 40 degree or even 42 degree position rather than 37.5 or less. Due to the flatness of this type of board the Taylor cuts should be a given. Greg