Belt Slippage On Landis #1

[lazyd]

I have a Landis #1 Stitcher that is set up with the old pedal drive. When I try to sew with it the belt slips. I have shortened the belt twice, it helped some, ----how tight should it be ? Do I need some type of belt dressing ? Also, Shall I keep peddling or is it best to convert these old machines over to run with a clutch motor ? Any one have any suggestions on this machine ? Thanks----------------Bill

[CowboyBob]

Bill,

The best way to tell if it's tight enough is when it don't slip anymore.These belts do get old

(like to rest of us) and don't work good anymore & you might need to buy a new one.

Bob

[amuckart]

If you're going to put a motor on it the only thing I'd say is please make sure it's reversible, and don't throw the pedals away! It'll probably outlast you and the next person might want to treadle it, and complete stands always seem to hold their value better.

Bob's dead on, you might just need a new belt. If it's a round leather belt McMaster Carr sell Urethane belt that makes an excellent replacement. It's slightly tacky but very flexible. I use it on all my treadles now. Search the site for "Urethane Round Belting" and you'll find it. It's hollow and joined with little aluminium joiners that you need to purchase separately.

[lazyd]

Thanks guys for the reply on my Landis #1. Now I will tell you the whole story. I bought it from a gal here in South Dakota, it had been sitting in a shed for several years. I cleaned it up and oiled it and oiled it some more. It sews good on about 2 layers of 10 oz. harness leather, but I bought it with intentions of sewing tugs because I do a lot of repair work on Draft horse harness in this area. I said I oiled it alot because it seems like it is tight. Like it doesn't free wheel like it should. I also have a Landis #3 with a motor on it , when you get that flywheel going , it's hard to stop! But I have a lot of problems with the #3 also. Thats another issue I'll have to ask about sometime. I would appreciate any advice I could get on getting my #1 to sew good, I'm going to try tightening the belt right now until it breaks, and then I'll buy a new one ! Thanks again------------Bill

[catskin]

While this will not keep your machine exactly original but it will eliminate slipping. I did this on a big old machine, I replaced the belt with sprockets and a chain. In my case I used sprockets and chain from 2 bikes with very little machineing and drilling 6 small holes I was able to put a sprocket on the side of the clutch pulley and one on the side of the pulley on the fly wheel on the machine.

All this without harming the pulleys so it could be put back to belt drive in about half an hour if I chose to. Now I can start out with the needle touching the leather and go through 7/8 leather just stepping on the clutch pedal. Don't see why it would not work even if you stay with the treadle drive.

[amuckart]

The other thing you can do if you're using a leather belt is get it moving and rub a chunk of rosin on the inside of the belt.

If the head is stiff though that could be part of the reason. It's a much smaller scale I know, but I have a 201k which had exactly the same problem, the belt was plenty tight but it still slipped and the machine was heavy to turn over. It wasn't until I got *all* the old oil and grease out of it and re-lubed it with syntex that it started running well. Now it runs like a dream with very little pressure on the pedal.

Something I've found quite effective for cleaning out machines that have been sitting for a while is brake and parts cleaner. It's not great on any paintwork that you care a lot about but if you're willing to throw a few cans of the stuff at the problem it'll get darn near anything moving again without having to strip the whole machine.

[busted]

Thanks guys for the reply on my Landis #1. Now I will tell you the whole story. I bought it from a gal here in South Dakota, it had been sitting in a shed for several years. I cleaned it up and oiled it and oiled it some more. It sews good on about 2 layers of 10 oz. harness leather, but I bought it with intentions of sewing tugs because I do a lot of repair work on Draft horse harness in this area. I said I oiled it alot because it seems like it is tight. Like it doesn't free wheel like it should. I also have a Landis #3 with a motor on it , when you get that flywheel going , it's hard to stop! But I have a lot of problems with the #3 also. Thats another issue I'll have to ask about sometime. I would appreciate any advice I could get on getting my #1 to sew good, I'm going to try tightening the belt right now until it breaks, and then I'll buy a new one ! Thanks again------------Bill

I made a belt for the #1 I had. I took two pieces of 10 oz material cut to the length needed lap skive both ends on the top piece and on the bottom piece glue the pieces together at the skive. make the pieces

180 degrees apart and sew them with a single pass of 277 down the middle. Next take your #3 edger and round the new belt to fit the pulley. Mine was around 1\2" when I finished. And last but not least use either the wire splice from your old belt or make a new one. Cut your new belt and fit the wire splice to it. It will stretch just make a new hole and move the wire loop. You should be able to find a powered stand for the #1 and leave the peddles in place. I found one in Ohio. The guy that invented the #1 was a genius it is very simple to work on. It should sew 7/8" with no problem. I was sewing 3 pieces of 10 oz with out trouble. I had the stitch down to 5 spi it was very nice top and bottom.

The guy that bought out Landis inventory has a shop in Indiana his phone is 217 543 3464 I can't think of his name.

The Smithsonian web site there is a book for the Landis #1 that you can download.

Do you have the original needles? You need to obtain some before the sell for gold. The last I bought were 2.00 a piece. Needles rage in size from 180 to 280 and 300 needle will work for the 7 cord. You can use the 794 needles but you would have to retime the needle bar. There was a guy on Ferdco swap board that had some Landis #1 stuff for sale. If it is still for sale you should grab it.

In the bobbin shuttle there are two pieces of leather on either end of the shuttle if the shuttle moves back and forth more than 3\8" these pieces need to be replaced. They hold the bobbin close to the loop maker. Does your machine have the wax pot still attached to the front of the machine?

Everything you have oiled needs taken apart and the rust removed from all rotating/sliding parts. DO NOT use grease in the back of the hand crank cam. You should take the hand crank off and clean and

free up the cam followers.

One more thing DO NOT use nylon thread on this machine it will not work. Use a good quality linen thread. 5, 6, or 7 cord I used the stuff from Campbell.

Good luck this is very nice machine

[catskin]

I made a belt for the #1 I had. I took two pieces of 10 oz material cut to the length needed lap skive both ends on the top piece and on the bottom piece glue the pieces together at the skive. make the pieces

180 degrees apart and sew them with a single pass of 277 down the middle. Next take your #3 edger and round the new belt to fit the pulley. Mine was around 1\2" when I finished. And last but not least use either the wire splice from your old belt or make a new one. Cut your new belt and fit the wire splice to it. It will stretch just make a new hole and move the wire loop. You should be able to find a powered stand for the #1 and leave the peddles in place. I found one in Ohio. The guy that invented the #1 was a genius it is very simple to work on. It should sew 7/8" with no problem. I was sewing 3 pieces of 10 oz with out trouble. I had the stitch down to 5 spi it was very nice top and bottom.

The guy that bought out Landis inventory has a shop in Indiana his phone is 217 543 3464 I can't think of his name.

The Smithsonian web site there is a book for the Landis #1 that you can download.

Do you have the original needles? You need to obtain some before the sell for gold. The last I bought were 2.00 a piece. Needles rage in size from 180 to 280 and 300 needle will work for the 7 cord. You can use the 794 needles but you would have to retime the needle bar. There was a guy on Ferdco swap board that had some Landis #1 stuff for sale. If it is still for sale you should grab it.

In the bobbin shuttle there are two pieces of leather on either end of the shuttle if the shuttle moves back and forth more than 3\8" these pieces need to be replaced. They hold the bobbin close to the loop maker. Does your machine have the wax pot still attached to the front of the machine?

Everything you have oiled needs taken apart and the rust removed from all rotating/sliding parts. DO NOT use grease in the back of the hand crank cam. You should take the hand crank off and clean and

free up the cam followers.

One more thing DO NOT use nylon thread on this machine it will not work. Use a good quality linen thread. 5, 6, or 7 cord I used the stuff from Campbell.

Good luck this is very nice machine

I know 2 people who have or had #1 Landis machines and the both told me they use the same needle as Pearson machines. So might be worth checking.

[busted]

I know 2 people who have or had #1 Landis machines and the both told me they use the same needle as Pearson machines. So might be worth checking.

I don't know about the Pearson needle, it probably would work. I think the number 7x23 needle would work too. I have a couple of boxes of the #7 needles. The needles for the #1 are becoming very hard to find.

I miss spoke on the owners location of the Landis stuff he lives in Illinois not Indiana.

[lazyd]

It sure is nice to talk to people who are interested in the same things I am ! OK, I shortened the belt some more and someone told me to rub it with bees wax. So I did that and it seems like it's not slipping any more. A package of needles came with the machine, it says Schmetz 331 LR. (I have no idea what that means) There are a few 200 and a few 230. No, I do not have the wax pot on my #1 but the #3 does, only I don't use any lubricant in it. Maybe I should though because Yes I do use nylon thread in all my machines. I thought everyone did these days ! What's wrong with nylon ? Also I have a question on the presser foot of my #1. My #3 has points on the bottom of the foot that match up with the stitch length you want. Should my #1 have the points on the bottom of the foot also because it doesn't. It is smooth ! I sure appreciate everyones input on my old Landis. Keep it coming, I'm learning alot!!! Thanks---------------Bill

[busted]

It sure is nice to talk to people who are interested in the same things I am ! OK, I shortened the belt some more and someone told me to rub it with bees wax. So I did that and it seems like it's not slipping any more. A package of needles came with the machine, it says Schmetz 331 LR. (I have no idea what that means) There are a few 200 and a few 230. No, I do not have the wax pot on my #1 but the #3 does, only I don't use any lubricant in it. Maybe I should though because Yes I do use nylon thread in all my machines. I thought everyone did these days ! What's wrong with nylon ? Also I have a question on the presser foot of my #1. My #3 has points on the bottom of the foot that match up with the stitch length you want. Should my #1 have the points on the bottom of the foot also because it doesn't. It is smooth ! I sure appreciate everyones input on my old Landis. Keep it coming, I'm learning alot!!! Thanks---------------Bill

Try not to crash the Schmetz needles They are no longer made. The 200 & 230 are the needles you need to do most of your sewing with. Schmetz stopped making the 331lr last year they were the only manufacturing company that made the needle for the Landis #1. Do you have any of the needle bushings for the needle guide? The 280 and 250 needle are getting hard to find too. The 300 needle was the largest it used a 7 cord for harness.

You don't need the wax pot It was used to make harness when the machine was new. The thread looper is at the base of the needle inside the shuttle trough in front of the needle. The thread was routed through a looping and wax device and then put in the leather from the bottom of the feed dogs. Probably you don't have the burner that is required to keep the wax pot hot don't worry about it

Nylon thread will not work on this machine it will bind and wad up in a mess of tight little loops under the material and behind the bobbin and shuttle. Actually nylon thread is crap it stretches to much.

They are called pricker feet and they are called this for a reason. On the original Landis foot there are 4 small points on the bottom of the foot. If they are not there someone sanded or filed them off or wore them out you need to invest in some that are not worn out.. The stitch length is controlled by the length of the pricker foot. there are 7 or 8 sizes of the pricker foot. When you change the stitch length you need those pricker points on the bottom of it. that is how you set the stitch length with the new pricker foot.

Good luck to ya' getting this fine machine up an running.

[amuckart]

It sure is nice to talk to people who are interested in the same things I am ! OK, I shortened the belt some more and someone told me to rub it with bees wax. So I did that and it seems like it's not slipping any more. A package of needles came with the machine, it says Schmetz 331 LR. (I have no idea what that means) There are a few 200 and a few 230. No, I do not have the wax pot on my #1 but the #3 does, only I don't use any lubricant in it. Maybe I should though because Yes I do use nylon thread in all my machines. I thought everyone did these days ! What's wrong with nylon ? Also I have a question on the presser foot of my #1. My #3 has points on the bottom of the foot that match up with the stitch length you want. Should my #1 have the points on the bottom of the foot also because it doesn't. It is smooth ! I sure appreciate everyones input on my old Landis. Keep it coming, I'm learning alot!!! Thanks---------------Bill

If it uses 331LR needles, then buy up what you can when you find 'em. The 230s are made intermittently but none of the other sizes are any more and they're way expensive.

I wouldn't run Nylon through this. Bonded poly would probably work since it doesn't stretch, but synthetic threads will tend to wear the thread path much faster than linen will. Some people just dunk the whole spool in silicone lube when they're running with synthetic thread. I fill the wax pot with neatsfoot oil when I'm running linen thread, but I haven't done much with this size of machine yet. Sellari's liquid wax is the other option.

The pricker feet act like an overstitch wheel, but on the #6 at least you could also get flat feet. I have a set of pricker feet for my A1, but I really want a set of pricker feet for my #6es.

[lazyd]

Again, Thanks for all the information guys. Now , does anyone have or know where I can get pricker feet for my Landis #1 ? Something suitable for harness work ? I am useing a #7 in my Landis #3 right now. Does that seem about right ? Thanks-------------------Bill

[ddushane]

Try not to crash the Schmetz needles They are no longer made. The 200 & 230 are the needles you need to do most of your sewing with. Schmetz stopped making the 331lr last year they were the only manufacturing company that made the needle for the Landis #1. Do you have any of the needle bushings for the needle guide? The 280 and 250 needle are getting hard to find too. The 300 needle was the largest it used a 7 cord for harness.

You don't need the wax pot It was used to make harness when the machine was new. The thread looper is at the base of the needle inside the shuttle trough in front of the needle. The thread was routed through a looping and wax device and then put in the leather from the bottom of the feed dogs. Probably you don't have the burner that is required to keep the wax pot hot don't worry about it

Nylon thread will not work on this machine it will bind and wad up in a mess of tight little loops under the material and behind the bobbin and shuttle. Actually nylon thread is crap it stretches to much.

They are called pricker feet and they are called this for a reason. On the original Landis foot there are 4 small points on the bottom of the foot. If they are not there someone sanded or filed them off or wore them out you need to invest in some that are not worn out.. The stitch length is controlled by the length of the pricker foot. there are 7 or 8 sizes of the pricker foot. When you change the stitch length you need those pricker points on the bottom of it. that is how you set the stitch length with the new pricker foot.

Good luck to ya' getting this fine machine up an running.

This says the stitch length is controlled by the length of the pricker foot, Is changing the foot all you have to do to get the different stitch length or do you have to adjust something else as well? Thanks for any help.

Dwayne

[pcox]

There is a knob on the lower front of tne machine that you adjust to match the stitch length to the foot you chose. the knob has a notched wheel on the back of the machine that keeps the adjutment from changing on ot own. You need topry the lever away from the wheel as you trun the knob so you don't strip the notchs off the wheel.

I have been useing nylon thread on mine for 20 years and I get along fine with it. Everything from 138 to 415. If you use linen thread you really need the boiler to heat the wax and the bobbin winder that runs the thread thru the melted wax as you wind the bobbin. The boiler will keep the schuttle race almost too hot to touch when you are using the machine and that keeps the bobbin wax soft. The needle tip dips the upper thread in the wax as you sew. the bottom of the feed dog lever pushes a plunger that pumps the hot wax into a well that suppies the needle. this means you will need to light the boiler and let the machine come up to temp. before you can sew. This sounds like a lot of trouble but linen and hot wax will make the best machine stitch you have ever seen

Edited July 28, 2013 by pcox

[ddushane]

I'm not at home right now, is it numbered some way so you know which setting to choose for each of the feet, I have several of the feet. Thank you for your reply.

[pcox]

No markings at all. put some leather in the machine with no thread & sew a few stitches remove and see if the holes and the pricker marks match then adjust till they do. It can be a little hard to tell so I push a hand stitch needle thru the holes from the back side to make the needle holes show clearly. I sew most of the time at 6 per inch. but I have sewen some lighter leather at 12 per inch with 138 thread.

Turning the knob to the right shortens the stitch. counterclockwise makes it longer

Edited July 28, 2013 by pcox

[ddushane]

I appriciate the help, I've been sewing with a little bit with it, I ordered some needles for the other day, Got some 200's & 280's in the 230's are back ordered. I sewed a some pieces of leather together the other day that ended up a tad over 3/4" after sewing, but I ended up breaking the needle, I was using # 200 needle & 277 thread. I think with the larger needles I could do this fine. I'm a knife maker & will be stitching up sheaths with it. I love old machines, I've got a 1911 25 lb. Little Giant trip hammer that has been completely rebuilt by the owners of Little Giant. Hoping to forge some damascus with it. Thanks again for your time.

Dwayne

[pcox]

A 200 needle is to skinny for 3/4 it will flex and hit the needle plate breaking itself. I use 250s with 346 or 415 thread for everything over 5/8. The new needles we can buy now don't have a groove that is long enough for 3/4 if the needle bushing is the right size for the needle the treade will cut between the top of the groove and the bushing.

I also am a blacksmith and I rebuild power hammers I have about 12 in stock now about 1/2 of them LGs Sid has sold little giant to his long time machinist Roger I live 2 hours from Neb. city. Maybe we will meet sometime at a blacksmith conf. I will demoing a 25# LG at the UMBA conference it Wisconsin Aug.9-10th

Edited July 28, 2013 by pcox

[ddushane]

Sid is the one that rebuilt my 25#, & I've got a 50 lb that I have loaned out for a while, I haven't learned enough about Them to mess with it much, I'm in the process of getting my shop together, I moved from a 20X20 to a 32X90 building with an up stairs. So I've got a lot more room. I've been engraving for the past 5 yrs or so and it keeps me busy as well, I want to finish my shop and build knives with my own damascus, engrave them & do my own leather work on them. It all takes time, I got home from work and looked at that know you mentioned, I'll try to figure out how to get it set right. In your experience, would you say that 415 size thread is too big for a sheath or not? Hopefully one day we'll get to run into each other, I'm in West Texas. Thanks again for all your help,

Dwayne

[pcox]

I use 207 up to 24 oz total thickness 277 to 40 oz and 415 above that. The only sheath work I do that is over 40 oz is axe sheaths

[KAW]

I use the 200 for bout up to a 1/2 with a #4 cord linen and 160 with a 3 cord linen on fine poppers for my quirts, thickness on them is bout 3/16 to a 1/4 I use the wax pot and it takes alittle more time but it is worth it I think, as both of you fellas I also have a very strong love for mechanical hammers I have rebuilt a lot of various brands the Beaudry Champion being my favorite as I run 3 of them.

[KAW]

pcox do you have a burner for your #1 ,I'm looking for the burn for the wax pot mine is bout on its last leg, if you know of you will you let me know thanks

[ddushane]

I would like a burner for mine as well, I would like to try that at some point.

[pcox]

The burner that came with my machine was burn out. I replaced it with a porpane burner froma coleman backpacker camp stove. The backpacker stove has a smaller burner than the regular stove.