Need Help With Dye And Finish

[BanjoMan]

I am fairly new to leatherwork and need some good advice on what dye and finish I need to use to get the results I want. I am making holsters, wallets, badge holders and related items and I need a durable finish. Up to this point, I have been using Tandy eco-flo water based dye and satin sheen finish. It has worked out all right with the brown and tan, but the black did not penetrate very well. After SEVERAL coats it still looked dark brown. I am ready to switch to a higher quality dye, but I don't know where to start. I have heard a lot of good things about Fiebing's, but they have several options to choose from. What is the difference between the regular dye and the oil dye? Also, what Fiebing's finish is best to use. I want something that is permanent and waterproof but I DO NOT want a high gloss. I am not equipped to spray a finish on, so I need something that can be applied with either wool daubers or a sponge. I know that this is a lot to ask at once, but I just need a starting point!

[bison]

Hey BanjoMan,

I use the USMC Black, it's a spirit dye. I dye with a dark color, blue or green first (in the attached photo it was dyed green first), then apply the black over it, usually two coats, then let dry for a day or so. Then I oil with neatsfoot oil and let dry for a day or so. Then apply acrylic resolene, cut 50/50 with water. Gives a nice satin finish. Follow up with black leather balm with atom wax and you should be in good shape.

That's just my way. There are others who are more qualified than me who might have a different take.

Good luck,

Dave

[Jim W]

Hey BanjoMan,

I use the USMC Black, it's a spirit dye. I dye with a dark color, blue or green first (in the attached photo it was dyed green first), then apply the black over it, usually two coats, then let dry for a day or so. Then I oil with neatsfoot oil and let dry for a day or so. Then apply acrylic resolene, cut 50/50 with water. Gives a nice satin finish. Follow up with black leather balm with atom wax and you should be in good shape.

That's just my way. There are others who are more qualified than me who might have a different take.

Good luck,

Dave

That's good info there. I don't like how the lack of solid color coverage I got with the emerald green from eco-flo worked out, so I'm thinking of making a change as well.

One question, What did you use to sew that piece there? Was it a machine or by hand? I will be needing to sew linings into dog collars and such and have yet to grasp that concept well with the hole punches and waxed threads

[jasonsmith]

Hey BanjoMan,

I use the USMC Black, it's a spirit dye. I dye with a dark color, blue or green first (in the attached photo it was dyed green first), then apply the black over it, usually two coats, then let dry for a day or so. Then I oil with neatsfoot oil and let dry for a day or so. Then apply acrylic resolene, cut 50/50 with water. Gives a nice satin finish. Follow up with black leather balm with atom wax and you should be in good shape.

That's just my way. There are others who are more qualified than me who might have a different take.

Good luck,

Dave

You should try the Fiebings Pro Oil Black.

How are you applying the acrylic resolene? I did some test pieces with a damp sponge and noticed it can come out blotchy because of the sponge. I'm thinking of doing some test pieces by spraying the acrylic resolene. Either with my Perval sprayer, or maybe a small mist bottle.

[marine mp]

Banjoman,

Try Vinegaroon (vinegar black) and you'll never go back. Use the "search" or the How do I do it section for "vinegaroon". Semper-fi Mike

Edited February 3, 2011 by marine mp

[Ellen]

After trying everything humanly possible with Fiebings's Leather Dyes (spirit dyes), switched to Fiebing's Pro-Oil dyes and completely happy with them. Both are for manual application (by dauber or just a piece of sponge in tweezers), but have a strong smell.

Pro-Oil:

Pros:

- even coverage,

- practically no excess of dye to remove after dyeing,

- if you don't use a very old leather, no additional oiling is required

- good main colors, and the red is a real red, not magenta.

Cons:

- very specific shades of colors, spirit dyes have better reddish browns,

- even color. For splotched colors use spirit dyes.

Spirit dyes:

Pros:

- last longer, better use them diluted to 1/3 of original strength by rubbing alcohol or methyl alcohol,

- reddish browns variety, easily make edges one shade down(med brown for light brown, dark brown for med brown),

- allow splotched application

Cons:

- hard to get an even color without dip dyeing,

- make leather hard, better to oil leather before dyeing or apply conditioner like Lexol afterward,

- much more rub-off to remove after dyeing.

I have very limited experience with Eco-Flo dyes, but their browns look like weak version of F's spirit dyes, same uneveness.

Finishes:

See the holster maker how they use Resolene.

Full strength for a flesh side, it holds fibers down; 75% in water soaks in better, less thick; more than one layer of 50% is more even.

Tandy's Super Shene and Satin Shene are similar, but more liquid, easier to apply evenly with sponge, and allow mixes from shiny to almost matte. In any case you have to apply them in thin coats. You will see how the thick film of finish just lifts from your fingers.

Holster makers use Kiwi neutral shoe polish over this finish for a softer feel and look.

[jasonsmith]

Yes, the Fiebings Pro Oil dyes are the best. It doesn't harden the leather and there is hardly anything to buff out.

Does anyone spray the acrylic sealers on? I've found it is real easy to get a crappy finish putting the acrylic sealer on with a sponge. Especially when there are bubbles in the acrylic sealer that you can't get rid of before it dries. I was thinking of doing a test piece using a small mist spray bottle. That way it puts it on thin.

[Hyde]

Does anyone spray the acrylic sealers on?

I spray everything (spirit dyes, sealer) with an airbrush (and a respirator, of course!). Now I'm no expert, and I don't have ten's of years doing this craft, however, I've had exceptional results spraying resolene (uncut). Sure, it gives the item a sheen- somewhere between satin and semi-gloss (IMO- any more gloss than that and your applying the product too thick). Also leaves a slight tacky feeling (that WILL permenantly leave a finger print if handled too soon). You may have read, and I've experienced, about a white milky-ness on the leather. As stated elsewhere- it DOES dry clear, however, I attribute that to too heavy of an application. Finally- I have witnessed the shine dulls down with use and time. I like the idea resolene provides... sealing (both color and wealtherproofing). I can live with the glossiness.

With that said- I am currently dealing with an issue that surfaced AFTER the resolene was sprayed but it may just be amplifying an underlying problem (still not sure). I'm trying to work through it and will continue to use it (although may try dipping in vinagaroon in the VERY near future).

I recall reading somewhere on this forum that the Prevail sprayer was NOT the best for shooting sealer. Think it had to do with the fact that there's no control over the mist pattern... ?

[marine mp]

Hyde, you can get rid of the tackiness that resolene leaves by rubbing on some Kiwi Neutral Shoe polish and buff. Semper-fi Mike

[BanjoMan]

Thanks everyone for the replies and the good advice! Sorry it's taken me so long to get back, I've been busy.... Since starting this topic, I have obtained several colors of Fiebing's oil dye, Fiebing's resolene, bag-kote, tan-kote, and other products. I knew as soon as I touched the dauber to the leather, Fiebing's black oil dye is in a whole different league compared to the Eco-Flo. Seems to me that the Eco-Flo acts more as a stain instead of a dye, requiring several coats before showing results. So after solving my problem with the dye, I ran into the question of what finish to use? Keep in mind, I want LITTLE to NO gloss! I tried the resolene and immediately noticed that it produced more of a gloss than I preferred. It may have to do with the fact that I applied it full strength with a damp sponge....just gonna take some practice I guess. I then took the advice of many and applied a coat of Kiwi neutral shoe polish and it helped cut the shine somewhat. I would like to try a different sealer and am considering using either tan-kote or bag-kote, but am having problems finding someone who knows what the difference is between the two. Even the people at Fiebing's could not give me a definite answer! At this point, I think I'll just finish several sample pieces with different products until I discover what gives me a desired result. In conclusion, Fiebing's oil dye (black and other colors as well) is AWESOME! Below is a picture of the project I just completed using (in order): Fiebing's black pro oil dye, neatsfoot oil, resolene, bag-kote, and kiwi neutral shoe polish. Hope you like it!

Edited February 3, 2011 by BanjoMan

[BanjoMan]

Another pic....