Police Saddle For My Bfb Mare? Other Suggestions.

[Newfman]

Hey folks,

I have been thinking about something like a Police saddle for my BFB mare. That is text brevity for Big Fat Belgian. I was thinking about the kind that the Manhatten Mounted Police use, since they seem to ride Belgians a bit, albeit less round ones. This could make getting the right size, less of an issue. She is actually looking pretty good at the moment, after a long winter on hay. She could use some miles though, and so could I. I would love a custom Wade, but it is so not in my price range at the moment.

Does anyone have any suggestions, leads on good used gear and who makes this type of saddle? I would be intersted in other suggested types as well. What do the Mounties ride? They mostly ride Candadian Horses though, so Belgian size may still be a custom issue. What names should I look for as far as good craftsmanship goes?

Thanks for your input.

Dennis

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

Dennis,

I don't know if the Mounties use other horses in other areas, but the RCMP Musical Ride has come to Valleyview twice now and they have times set when the barn is open so people can walk through and see (not go next to) the horses and talk to the officers as they tend them and their tack. Their horses are narrow thoroughbreds and the saddles are English saddles. Beyond that I can't help you but I know the backs on those horses are VERY different than a BFB. The Canadian horses we have built trees for, on the other hand, have pretty broad and wide backs and the trees we have built for them would be similar to what you probably need.

[Lamplog]

Hi Dennis,

We met over to Frannie's last summer when Bryan Neubert was there. I have one of Rod & Denise's trees here that I have started, they make a great tree. It looks like it might not be in your budget but if I can help in any way, give me a shout. I think there is an outfit somewhere out in the midwest that makes or imports a austrailian type police saddle that fits drafts. I have a gal over here in Ashland that is thinking about selling a black wade draft saddle that she has. I think the price is up there but she wants lighter wade and its only a few years old. Maybe we will run into you this spring when we can see over the snow banks.

Tom Lamprey

[Newfman]

Hi Tom,

Yes, that's right, I guess you saw my little bucking bronco extraordinaire! Yup, he hasn't changed. Still can't be ridden and all the trainers and clinicians around here are totally afraid of him. Hence the need for a saddle for my Belgian. I have a great handmade Bob Beecher Wade, but it fits everyone elses's horse, but not the BFB. It fits my Bronco as well, but it isn't fun riding in it for a few seconds here, and a few seconds there.

We are hoping that this is our last tight year ( $$$ ), so I'm going to have to be pretty frugal, but don't want the ol' mare to become uncomfortable because of it. I could actually just sit on a boat cushion while riding crosslegged, as she has a lot of room up there. I'm looking at a Barefoot brand saddle as well. Just looking at options.

I'd like to check out the saddle making process some time. I had the opportunity to pop in and see Bob Klenda when I was in Rifle Colorado a couple months ago. It would have been short notice though and I didn't want to be rude. I have no doubt he would have been welcoming, but, my manners won over my curiosity. It is good to have someone making saddles in our area. I will have to pay you a visit. I'm still wearing my snow shoes right now, but am about to change them for dive fins.

Cheers

Dennis

You're gonna' saddle what!?!?

Edited March 7, 2011 by Newfman

[Newfman]

So I finally found a saddle for Buffy the Belgian. I went with the reccomendation of Deputy Sheriff Gary Myers and "Max" of Ohio's, Summit County Mounted Unit.

He is riding a treeless saddle by Barefoot Saddles (www.Barefootsaddles.net) ( which is where the photo came from). The 'Cheyenne' model is what he is riding and it's design reportedly would work well for my "big boned" girl.

I would have really liked to go with a western saddle, but with her coffee table back and oil drum sides, I would have no feel or contact whatsoever. So, I am going to the dark side, and riding an english style saddle. Should be interesting. Being treeless, these saddles should be used with a special pad, so I have ordered that as well. Barefoot saddles are pretty popular in the competetion endurance world, which is more riding than Buffy would ever go for, so we should be good to go.

Now I just have to find me a "good" (quarter) horse for my Bob Beecher Wade. (heavy sigh) Not so easy to find in upper New England. Thanks for the input folks.

Now Tom, I may have a little time off next week, so I may need to sneak over and spy on that saddle yur buildin!

[Go2Tex]

I wonder what the horse thinks about that "treeless" saddle?.......

[Newfman]

I wonder what the horse thinks about that "treeless" saddle?.......

Brent, that is a great question. I could ask the same thing of the saddles you have made for your clients. I don't mean that in a argumentative way. I assume that, since we can't really "ask" the horse, we have to infer an answer to that question, by observing how our horses react to being saddled with that same saddle over and over again for one. If they get soured to the idea, it would be a good indication that they don't like it.

If they become crochety and unmanageable during riding, one might believe that they have issues with the saddle, particularly if a different saddle brings a better result. On that link that I provided, is a "gallery" of customers. There is one woman named Theresa Mattor, riding Cookie. Cookie is a Newfoundland Pony Clyde cross. She went through a few saddles trying to find something that would work. Cookie would literally drop to her knees on her forehand for seemingly no reason. Dr. Mailhot from Branch Equine tried everything to figure out the reason for it, musculoskeletal, physiological, nutrition, saddle fit, rider imbalance, but could come up with nothing. Theresa bought Cookie the Barefoot saddle a couple years ago, and there hasn't been an issue since. They hack around a lot. I know this first hand, because I am her horses hoof trimmer, and I have worked with the Vet on hoof rehab, and know that she is a very up-to-date equine Vet.

I would also assume that Deputy Myer wouldn't spend day after day wrestling with a 2,000 pound Belgian over a saddle comfort issue. As I also posted, these saddles are used in endurance racing, and those folks are pretty neurotic about getting their horses soundly across the finishline.

http://www.barefoot-...about-Barefoot/ this is a link to people presumed to be experts in their equine related fields, and what they have to say about the treeless saddle.

There is also this PDF that may do a better job of answering your question than I could ever do. I know that they say that they have performed pressure testing. It is hard to get around the results of that, with out flat out lying. You can't get away with that for long in the internet age. http://rokrakarate.c...addleSystem.pdf

I'm guessing that there are some treeless saddles, as well as tree'd saddles that have hurt their fair share of horses. The folks on this website, like Denise Nikkle, Brent Tubre (yup, you) Bruce Johnson, and Keith Seidel to name a few, have made me very wary of saddle fit, and suspicious of every rig I see on a horse. So I didn't go in this direction lightly. I would ditch this saddle in a heartbeat if it doesn't work for my horse. I'm neurotic about horse feet, and saddle quality and fit isn't too far behind.

...edited for spelling and clarity.

Edited April 23, 2011 by Newfman

[Go2Tex]

I could ask the same thing of the saddles you have made for your clients.

gulp....

[Newfman]

gulp....

I can see you are taking that the wrong way. In other words, how do we "really" know, since we actually cannot ask. It is quite possible, though you have taken painstaking efforts to get as great a fit for a clients horse as possible, you have to depend on your client to recognize that their horse is having an issue with the fit over time. After spending four grand on a custom hand made rig, they aren't likely to blame the saddle. More often than not, the horse is " just acting an idiot and needs more time being trained". Unfortunately, the horse can't just say, "Hey, it is starting to give me a pressure point on my left shoulder."

The question you posted was a bit ambiguous, so I am tring to adress your concern.

You seem to take issue with me chosing a treeless saddle.

[Go2Tex]

After spending four grand on a custom hand made rig, they aren't likely to blame the saddle.

One can only hope.

[Newfman]

I wonder what the horse thinks about that "treeless" saddle?.......

So far, so good!

[AdamTill]

<br />I wonder what the horse thinks about that "treeless" saddle?.......<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />So far, so good!<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Just as a bit of a terminology point, your saddle is actually just bar-less, not truly treeless, since it has fiberglass pommel arches and some sort of rubber cantle insert.

I sympathize with your plight, since my Icelandic is wider then any of the fork or cantle templates from the Dennis Lane system. Glad to hear things are working out for you, but you had better luck with those types of saddles then I ever did. My horse never complained, but I found the lateral stability to be lacking with the model I used for a while, and the soft seat was miserable to sit in for more then a couple of hours (I can ride hard seat saddles for much longer).

In the end I had a custom Wade done up for him and modified the tree on another saddle with a few leather shims skivved to shape (skirts went back on fine), so I now have a couple of saddles that fit. Both of us are much more comfortable in those, so if you can save up for a custom saddle that would be my recommendation. That said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

To your point above, I'm just as picky about fit with my custom saddle as I was with my cheaper ones. My "cheaper" saddle is just less expensive, not lower quality - as an endurance saddle it's cordura for weight reduction, but still has a good rawhide covered tree. If Ray Hunt wouldn't call himself a horseman I'm nowhere close to worthy of the title yet either, but no horseman ever blamed his horse for a tack problem.

[Newfman]

<br /><br /><br />

If Ray Hunt wouldn't call himself a horseman I'm nowhere close to worthy of the title yet either, but no horseman ever blamed his horse for a tack problem.

Well said.

She (buffy the Belgian) has a Duett all purpose english saddle as well. It clashes with my western riding gear a bit though. Barefoot calls their saddle a treeless, so I just go with that. Buff is too wide to use the fiberglass pommel, so she has a foam insert. There is nothing down the spine of the saddle, just very thick padding and flocking. I can flex the saddle in the middle if I try to fold it laterally. the cantle I don't think qualifies as a tree, as racing trees don't have much of a cantle, or so I thought. It is much more a big heavy bareback pad with stirrups and a seat like a saddle. There is really no tree in the barefoot saddle.

I could have a western saddle built for her, but she doesn't get ridden enough to justify the cost. It would be easier to justify putting my butt into her english saddle. The Barefoot seems a good compromise though. I have a very nice handmade wade that originally sold for $4K. I love it, but would not buy one for my draft. Barefoot makes some interesting Endurance saddles as well. You could find out from the endurance website what they think of them. Could be interesting.

Dennis