Old West Leatherwork

[UKRay]

I'm looking at making a couple of replica holsters and would like to make them as authentic as possible. Has anyone got any pictures of original western holsters and belts they can post or maybe links to websites that have these images?

Hope you can help.

Ray

[Luke Hatley]

Ray there are a lot of books out there on holsters...but the best one i have found,

there are no patterns tho, just photos.

Packing Iorn....

Gunleather of the Frontier West

by,Richard C.Rattenbury..........

(just a thought have you looked thru the Time Life Books,there might be

some ideas in The Gunfighters....Cowboys books.

Edited March 2, 2011 by Luke Hatley

[ChuckBurrows]

Along with the book recommended you can get authentic patterns from Will Ghormley. For online research take a look at the www.bbhc.org site

http://old.bbhc.org/collections/bbhc/Search_cfm.cfm?method=byMake

Also auction sites such as: Cowan's, Greg Martin, Butterfields and Gary Hendershott (http://www.garyhendershott.net/catalogs/132 catalogs #144 & 146 especially)

[UKRay]

Thanks guys. Most appreciated. I have just ordered 'Packing Iron' and will check the rest out asap.

Cheers,

Ray

[azleatherman]

I'm looking at making a couple of replica holsters and would like to make them as authentic as possible. Has anyone got any pictures of original western holsters and belts they can post or maybe links to websites that have these images?

Hope you can help.

Ray

Greetings Ray:

I think the guys have "nailed it", Packing Iron is one of the best sources for both information and pictures of period gun rigs, from the beginning to the end!!! Much of my product these days is taken right out of that book!! Trust me, if you are a little inovative and good with pattern making, you can figure them out!

rick

[UKRay]

Thanks, Rick. I'm keen to see the book!

Ray

Greetings Ray:

I think the guys have "nailed it", Packing Iron is one of the best sources for both information and pictures of period gun rigs, from the beginning to the end!!! Much of my product these days is taken right out of that book!! Trust me, if you are a little inovative and good with pattern making, you can figure them out!

rick

[cjmt]

Thanks, Rick. I'm keen to see the book!

Ray

Hi Ray,

I'm curious, if you have the book by now does it make any mention of buckles used?

Charlie

[UKRay]

Charlie, I didn't notice any mention of the type of buckles used (I'm away from the workshop today or I'd take another look for you) but there are plenty of excellent pictures of all kinds of leather and the buckles are clearly illustrated. Initially, I thought it was an extravagance as the book is quite expensive, but I have to say it was worth every penny as a reference work.

Thanks to all those who suggested it.

Ray

[Art]

Hi Ray,

Packing Iron is great, Will Ghormley patterns are very good also. Chuck failed to mention his Videos, one on sheathmaking and the other on holstermaking. Chuck's videos show methods of aging or distressing leather so they don't have that "brandy new" look. Using those techniques will make the holster blend in when worn, not scream "here I am". How I do wish we could get Chuck to make a video on his beading techniques. Chuck is the master at this form of decoration that is slipping away from us as we speak.

Art

Charlie, I didn't notice any mention of the type of buckles used (I'm away from the workshop today or I'd take another look for you) but there are plenty of excellent pictures of all kinds of leather and the buckles are clearly illustrated. Initially, I thought it was an extravagance as the book is quite expensive, but I have to say it was worth every penny as a reference work.

Thanks to all those who suggested it.

Ray

[cjmt]

Charlie, I didn't notice any mention of the type of buckles used (I'm away from the workshop today or I'd take another look for you) but there are plenty of excellent pictures of all kinds of leather and the buckles are clearly illustrated. Initially, I thought it was an extravagance as the book is quite expensive, but I have to say it was worth every penny as a reference work.

Thanks to all those who suggested it.

Ray

Hi Ray,

If you can be bothered and you remember when you next have it open I'd be really interested to know if types are mentioned or you can identify them. Being rather a geek I'm very interested in the history of the West End buckle family and I'm sure they were being used at that time but have no sources to prove it..

Charlie

[UKRay]

Art, I already have both of Chuck's videos - both are excellent and informative. Like you, I'd like to see a beading technique video - Hey, I'd even pay money for one! I've also earmarked a couple of the Will Ghormley patterns and, when the money comes to hand...

Charlie, I'll go through the book for you this weekend and see what can be found. I'd planned to spend a bit of time researching gun leather so this would be a pleasure.

Ray

[cjmt]

Charlie, I'll go through the book for you this weekend and see what can be found. I'd planned to spend a bit of time researching gun leather so this would be a pleasure.

Ray

Thanks Ray!

Charlie

[ChuckBurrows]

The most common buckles used on western gun leather as to material and type/style will depend on when - the following is a general over view the dates are approximate:

1) pre-1865:

styles: square or rectanglular center bar, single bar, and roller buckles were mot common. On fancier rigs, military style belt plates and buckles were used.

material: brass, nickle plated brass, japanned iron

2) post-1865:

styles: square or rectanglular center bar, single bar, and roller buckles with the addition of the famed California Clip Corner, usually made in nickle plated brass. This last style buckle was the most widely used by the mid to late 1870's on gunbelts by all makers.

material: brass, nickle plated brass, japanned iron

Manufacturers:

while the US leather crafters did use some import buckles from England, by the late 1840-50's era when gunrigs first began to be widely worn, most hardware was being made here in the USA by companies such as North and Judd who began business in 1812. Post Civil War, American makers would predominante for various reason, including the fact that the Brits had aided and abetted the CSA during the war, which the US Gov't wasn't real happy about and at least for a while discourged Brit imports.

To find out more on makers of hardware used by leather crafters during the period you will have to dig deep into the purchase records of the larger saddle/harness companies such as Main & Winchester, Meanea, etc. None of the general info books such as Packing Iron carry much of that detailed info. The Nat'l Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum ( http://nationalcowboymuseum.org/ )and the Buffalo Bill Historical Center ( http://old.bbhc.org/collections/bbhc/index.cfm?CFID=29649285&CFTOKEN=12749923 ) may also be able to provide info via their research depts.

For more info on gunleather in general or examples check out those two sites as well as several others such as the Autry Museum and auction sites whihc specialize in old guns and gear such as Cowans, Butterfields, Greg Martin, and Gary Hendershott ( several of Hendershott's catalogs are via this link http://issuu.com/dreamedia/docs/catalog_148_comancheria )

Hope that helps......

[Dwight]

I have a copy of an old Heiser catalog, . . . it dates from the turn of the century (maybe a bit later, . . . ???).

Let me know roughly what kind of style you are looking for, . . . I'll see what is in there.

Here are a couple of sample pages, though.

May God bless,

Dwight

[cjmt]

Hi Chuck,

Thank you for that excellent detailed reply, that gives me lots of reading to do! Finding catalogues of gu leather for the period is a particularily interesting, I hadnt thought of that.

Thanks again,

Charlie

The most common buckles used on western gun leather as to material and type/style will depend on when - the following is a general over view the dates are approximate:

1) pre-1865:

styles: square or rectanglular center bar, single bar, and roller buckles were mot common. On fancier rigs, military style belt plates and buckles were used.

material: brass, nickle plated brass, japanned iron

2) post-1865:

styles: square or rectanglular center bar, single bar, and roller buckles with the addition of the famed California Clip Corner, usually made in nickle plated brass. This last style buckle was the most widely used by the mid to late 1870's on gunbelts by all makers.

material: brass, nickle plated brass, japanned iron

Manufacturers:

while the US leather crafters did use some import buckles from England, by the late 1840-50's era when gunrigs first began to be widely worn, most hardware was being made here in the USA by companies such as North and Judd who began business in 1812. Post Civil War, American makers would predominante for various reason, including the fact that the Brits had aided and abetted the CSA during the war, which the US Gov't wasn't real happy about and at least for a while discourged Brit imports.

To find out more on makers of hardware used by leather crafters during the period you will have to dig deep into the purchase records of the larger saddle/harness companies such as Main & Winchester, Meanea, etc. None of the general info books such as Packing Iron carry much of that detailed info. The Nat'l Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum ( http://nationalcowboymuseum.org/ )and the Buffalo Bill Historical Center ( http://old.bbhc.org/...FTOKEN=12749923 ) may also be able to provide info via their research depts.

For more info on gunleather in general or examples check out those two sites as well as several others such as the Autry Museum and auction sites whihc specialize in old guns and gear such as Cowans, Butterfields, Greg Martin, and Gary Hendershott ( several of Hendershott's catalogs are via this link http://issuu.com/dre...148_comancheria )

Hope that helps......

[ChuckBurrows]

You are most welcome and old saddlery catalogs are a great resource

Cabin Creek has a bunch that are downloadable for a fee - also look on Ebay, etc. as well as doing an Internet search.......

http://www.cabincreekcds.com/index.htm

Edited April 27, 2011 by ChuckBurrows

[azleatherman]

I'm looking at making a couple of replica holsters and would like to make them as authentic as possible. Has anyone got any pictures of original western holsters and belts they can post or maybe links to websites that have these images?

Hope you can help.

Ray

Wow Ray!!!

Suprized that you got no reply on this one... Try Packing Iron, as one of the best reference guides on the history of Western Gunleather!!!

Hope that helped!

Rick

[ChuckBurrows]

Wow Ray!!!

Suprized that you got no reply on this one... Try Packing Iron, as one of the best reference guides on the history of Western Gunleather!!!

Hope that helped!

Rick

Guess you didn't see LIke Hatley's post then - he suggested it to Ray in the first answer i.e. Post #2

[azleatherman]

Guess you didn't see LIke Hatley's post then - he suggested it to Ray in the first answer i.e. Post #2

Gee Chuck:

Thanks for catching my mistake...actually, I somehow missed the whole thread!!! Don't know how that could have happened.

And once I found the thread and looked at it, I had already posted to it some number of days ago!!!

Hope you check my Spelling and Grammer also, as I am old and am prone to making mistakes!!!

Rick

[chillybean]

Based on the recommendations made on this thread I have just ordered Packing Iron from Amazon.....and that's why I love this site. Knowledge!

[UKRay]

You won't regret the purchase, Chillibean. I've really enjoyed that book. Great pictures!

Ray

[LNLeather]

Just a side note here... Anyone just looking for pictures of holsters and belts

for inspiration and for those that can't afford the book...

there are lots and lots of pictures to be found in a Google image search

for Packing Iron

Just the first website I looked at had a lot of pictures of different belt and holster styles

Cowboy Gunleather

[ouchmyfinger]

Guess you didn't see LIke Hatley's post then - he suggested it to Ray in the first answer i.e. Post #2

where can i get this holster dvd everyone is ranting about lol. sounds like a good thing to have

[katsass]

where can i get this holster dvd everyone is ranting about lol. sounds like a good thing to have

Ouchy digits, from the grumpy old guy; I think that they are mostly speaking of the book --- "Packing Iron" by Richard Rattenbury. It IMO is about the best reference book on 'western' holsters, beginning at the Civil War and progressing up through the rigs for the movie 'cowboys'. Costs somewhere around $25 -$30 if I remember correctly. I just Googled the name and picked the best price I could find on the net. Here's a pic of a holster I made, trying to replicate one from a picture in the book Had to modify a bit as the holster I made was for a Ruger Super Blackhawk --- a bunch bigger than a Colt SAA that the original holster was for. No patterns, but a whole bunch of excellent photos. Hope this helps. Mike

Edited March 13, 2012 by katsass