stitch quality

[esantoro]

back in the antediluvian era (pre-crash), there was a thread on which machines put down the best stitch.

i thought it would be interesting to post some pics of what we think is nice stitching. We can include machine used, thread, needle brand and point type, leather type and thickness.

I'll post some of my pics later today.

ed

[pella]

If i can find a machine that can stitch fine points on bridlework, let me know! I want to find a machine that can stitch very close to hardware, especially buckle, (is that possible!?) and a machine to stitch raised work on bridles (noseband and browbands).

For now, all my work is hand-stitched, like below, that a corse example using 8 point to the inch and heavy thread, 18/5

[esantoro]

If i can find a machine that can stitch fine points on bridlework, let me know! I want to find a machine that can stitch very close to hardware, especially buckle, (is that possible!?) and a machine to stitch raised work on bridles (noseband and browbands).

For now, all my work is hand-stitched, like below, that a corse example using 8 point to the inch and heavy thread, 18/5

Beautiful work, Pella. What did you use for your creases.

What you do with your work is where I want to take my bags: Elegant Simplicity, which requires a lot of attention to basic details.

My two cents is that in addition to the right machine, one would also need the right combination of needle plate and presser foot/toes.

ed

[pella]

thank you esantoro. This is wickett & craig harness leather (beautiful feel by the way) and i use orborne crease #5 for that piece. I use to crease when leather is damp, but i cant remember for that halter? Harness leather can be creased dry, it is so soft compare to UK leather.

[esantoro]

thank you esantoro. This is wickett & craig harness leather (beautiful feel by the way) and i use orborne crease #5 for that piece. I use to crease when leather is damp, but i cant remember for that halter? Harness leather can be creased dry, it is so soft compare to UK leather.

Pella,

I'm thinking of creasing some veg tan belts later tonight. When you wet the leather prior to creasing, to you wet the entire surface or just the area to be creased? With the veg tan, i imagine I'll need to wet the entire surface to avoid any uneven discoloration.

ed

[pella]

Esantoro:

I do wet the entire surface. You need to immerge the piece in a warm water for a certain time depending on leather, for un-oiled veg-tan, that's fast, less than a minute. You dont want the piece to be completely soaked. You leave the piece for drying a little bit, like if you want to carve leather, usually i place it in a bag for a while then i do other stuff. Then you crease, you can puch slot and holes then too. After, you can finish the edges, you will know when leather will be ready to be "burnished" when it squeak while burnishing. If leather is too wet, it do not work, wait a little bit then try again, if too dry, use a sponge to wet the edge only. You need to wait leather is completely dry for stitching or riveting (the day after), because leather expand when wet...

good creasing!

[esantoro]

Esantoro:

I do wet the entire surface. You need to immerge the piece in a warm water for a certain time depending on leather, for un-oiled veg-tan, that's fast, less than a minute. You dont want the piece to be completely soaked. You leave the piece for drying a little bit, like if you want to carve leather, usually i place it in a bag for a while then i do other stuff. Then you crease, you can puch slot and holes then too. After, you can finish the edges, you will know when leather will be ready to be "burnished" when it squeak while burnishing. If leather is too wet, it do not work, wait a little bit then try again, if too dry, use a sponge to wet the edge only. You need to wait leather is completely dry for stitching or riveting (the day after), because leather expand when wet...

good creasing!

Pella,

Do you think sponging the leather with water will be enough, or must I really submerge the whole piece. For belts, I wouldn't mind submerging the leather, but I am not so sure about larger leather pieces for briefcases.

Thanks for the advice,

ed

[jimsaddler]

Don't wet the Leather, warm the Crease. This will leave a permanent crease that is burnished. Jim saddler more later.

[pella]

well...yes, tel us more, i learn this technique at school with french teachers but for chrome leathers, with a hot crease but the osbore crease is not really made to be heated like french or english ones. When i begin saddlery work, i notice heating the creaser crack the leather, i guess it was too hot, but so tricky to get to a good temperature, i just "cold crease" now. The disavadtage of cold crease is that it disapear with use (like reins, leashes) so if you tell me a way to improve my technique, i listen to you :-) always open to amelioration

Please indicate, for which leather you recommend your technique.

[tonyc1]

Don't wet the Leather, warm the Crease. This will leave a permanent crease that is burnished. Jim saddler more later.

Yes, that's all I've ever done on english bridle and harness, heat the creaser over a small gas flame and it will give a good finish!

[jimsaddler]

Crease any Veg tan by warming an edge Iron (Fixed or Screw) over a soft flame. test by touching the heated iron to a wet cloth, it should not sizzle. I personally hold the iron about 1" from my Cheek, if I can just feel the heat it is warm enough.

Vigorously rub your crease into place, quickly. But don't overdo it as the crease mark will crackle. keep the iron moving smoothly. A god Crease will enhance your work immensely. But remember the old trade adage " Quiet but Elegant".

You can crease all types of Veg this way but Stuffed Leathers will respond the best.

To get back to the original Topic;

Raised Work can be done quite efficiently with a 45K25 Singer using a Right hand Foot assembly. This will enable you to get up into the Raise or Beading easily. Don't use Plastic fillers though as a Cord filler will fill better and not offer resistance to the foot to cause scuffing. I used this set-up in all my best work. I actually have sent my Foot set (Foot,Short Feed Dog and Short Needle Plate) to China to see if I can get it copied in Stainless Steel ( stop Staining Leather), as many Friends want copies so they can do this type of work. Compound Feed Machines will do the job but tend to climb the raise a bit where the old style feed actually lays the raise nicely.

I will try to take a Photo of my Creases to give you an idea of what you can use.

Please have a Happy Day. Jim

[esantoro]

Crease any Veg tan by warming an edge Iron (Fixed or Screw) over a soft flame. test by touching the heated iron to a wet cloth, it should not sizzle. I personally hold the iron about 1" from my Cheek, if I can just feel the heat it is warm enough.

Vigorously rub your crease into place, quickly. But don't overdo it as the crease mark will crackle. keep the iron moving smoothly. A god Crease will enhance your work immensely. But remember the old trade adage " Quiet but Elegant".

You can crease all types of Veg this way but Stuffed Leathers will respond the best.

To get back to the original Topic;

Raised Work can be done quite efficiently with a 45K25 Singer using a Right hand Foot assembly. This will enable you to get up into the Raise or Beading easily. Don't use Plastic fillers though as a Cord filler will fill better and not offer resistance to the foot to cause scuffing. I used this set-up in all my best work. I actually have sent my Foot set (Foot,Short Feed Dog and Short Needle Plate) to China to see if I can get it copied in Stainless Steel ( stop Staining Leather), as many Friends want copies so they can do this type of work. Compound Feed Machines will do the job but tend to climb the raise a bit where the old style feed actually lays the raise nicely.

I will try to take a Photo of my Creases to give you an idea of what you can use.

Please have a Happy Day. Jim

Thanks so much, Jim, for this tutorial.

I don't have the Singer machine in question, but I have noticed that it is easier to stitch closer to buckles on my 441 cylinder arm machine with a right or left presser toe, depending on which way I feed the leather, and a flat feeddogless needle plate, as there is no feed dog that pushes up on the leather.

I've also wondered if it is better to have needle plates and presser feet made of stainless steel, but wasn't aware that staining was the big issue.

ed

[jimsaddler]

The Stainless Steel Feet and Needle Plates are something that I have just started using on a 441, sure makes a difference on Damp Leather. They can be buffed to a very fine finish also if you want to alter them and hey they can be easily welded with a TIG or MIG without problem. I don't want to use any other now. hence wanting the Right side set for the 105.

Please have a Happy day. Jim.

Edited January 16, 2008 by jimsaddler

[pella]

i was heating too much. For chrome leathers, we used to heat very hot then "burn" a black stip of leather, not too much to crack, but look like resistence of chrome is much higer than veg-tan for heat.

I will try this technique and appreciate wich i preffer between hot and cold ;-)

thanks very much for tips on sewing machine.

[pella]

i was looking for the singer 45k25 on the web and i find picture with a roller foot? Is that standard? The machine is good looking. What is the smallest/biggest needle and thread you can use on that machine? Is it a good versatile machine for bridlework and repair on nylon and heavy harnesses(maybe not for traces...)?

I have an adler 105-25mo here but i'm wondering if i should invest for repairing it, the length of point is stuck to "too long".

I'm thinking selling my tippman boss and invest in a better motorised machine.

Is the Pearson a good machine for stitching fine bridlework? Is the point on most machines just to change the foot for a right foot? The right foot on my tipmann Boss do not allow to stich close at all from raised work. I preffer the center foot, and i never attemp to stitch fine bridle work with that "coarse" machine...dont want to scrap my work

[esantoro]

Yes, that's all I've ever done on english bridle and harness, heat the creaser over a small gas flame and it will give a good finish!

In Valerie Michael's Leatherworking handbook there is a picture of a glass bulb with gas/kerosene? and a wick which is used to heat creasers. I'd like to make myself a setup like this rather than running to and from the kitchen stove to crease my straps.

can this be had at a crafts store easily, or must I make it myself?

ed

[Jordan]

Old style bunson burner, used to come in chemistry sets before the government started protecting us from ourselves. LOL You should still be able to find one somewhere.

[bcurrier]

Any scientific or lab supply house carries these. Try this link or go to www.fishersci.com and search on "glass alcohol burner". About $7.

https://www.fishersci.com/wps/portal/PRODUC...mp;fromSearch=Y

Bill

[esantoro]

Any scientific or lab supply house carries these. Try this link or go to www.fishersci.com and search on "glass alcohol burner". About $7.

https://www.fishersci.com/wps/portal/PRODUC...mp;fromSearch=Y

Bill

Thanks for the links. The obsessions just keep on rolling in. Just when I've got one under control, a whole new one pops up.

I found this pretty interesting: http://www.modernmicroscopy.com/main.asp?a...e=78&page=1

ed

[esantoro]

back in the antediluvian era (pre-crash), there was a thread on which machines put down the best stitch.

i thought it would be interesting to post some pics of what we think is nice stitching. We can include machine used, thread, needle brand and point type, leather type and thickness.

I'll post some of my pics later today.

ed

two layers of 5/7 oz latigo skived to a combined 4mm, 207/277 coats peasant, organ 25 tri point, slotted needle plate. 441 clone.

Edited January 23, 2008 by esantoro

[esantoro]

Here are some pics:

277 top/ 207 bottom, 441 clone

single stitch is Coats

multiple stitches, Coats peasant on the outside, Eddington Deer on the inside, and Eddington Chestnut on the outside.

ed