To Oil Or Not To Oil.....

[Cattle Hide]

Do you add neatsfoot oil or a leather conditioner to your holsters after molding?

Do you use heat (Drying cabinet) to dry your holsters?

I have read almost every thread on the holster making process and as everyonesays, ask a dozen people and get 12 different answers!!!

Some people seem to freely add layer after layer of various finishes, oils,waxes, acrylics finishes, more oil, waxes, shoe polish, etc. This all seemslike too much in some cases! We have an organic matrix (Leather) that we wantto be firm (Holster), but we add things that soften the leather so it does notcrack. I worry that some of these things are incompatible and may damage theleather or the finish over the long run.

Another way to saythis: If I heat dry a holster is it mandatory to add oil? Have you actually had holsters crack withoutthe oil? Have you ever hadincompatibility problems with parts of the holster finishing process?

I will be buyingleather and "Liquids" very soon and would rather not reinvent the wheel by trying things that may not work together. Simple seems the best. Mold, dry,dye, finish and done.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Cattle Hide

[BearMan]

Good Morning Cattle Hide,

I cant say for all Holster makers,,, but I usually oil the heck out of the non tooled holsters I make. I usually will warm my oil in one of those babby bottle warmers before I use it. On the tooled ones, I apply a lot of oil to the lining leather before assembly. I know that John Bianchi dips & submerges his holsters & belts in a tray of warm oil, then liberally wipes them down with the same oil,,, then leaves them to dry overnight, before finishing. I've never had any problems with cracking.

Ed the"BearMan"

[katsass]

Do you add neatsfoot oil or a leather conditioner to your holsters after molding?

Do you use heat (Drying cabinet) to dry your holsters?

I have read almost every thread on the holster making process and as everyonesays, ask a dozen people and get 12 different answers!!!

Some people seem to freely add layer after layer of various finishes, oils,waxes, acrylics finishes, more oil, waxes, shoe polish, etc. This all seemslike too much in some cases! We have an organic matrix (Leather) that we wantto be firm (Holster), but we add things that soften the leather so it does notcrack. I worry that some of these things are incompatible and may damage theleather or the finish over the long run.

Another way to saythis: If I heat dry a holster is it mandatory to add oil? Have you actually had holsters crack withoutthe oil? Have you ever hadincompatibility problems with parts of the holster finishing process?

I will be buyingleather and "Liquids" very soon and would rather not reinvent the wheel by trying things that may not work together. Simple seems the best. Mold, dry,dye, finish and done.

Good morning from just a grumpy old man: First, I do use a heat drying method in the winter.......actually, just a cardboard box and a small space heater. I live in the desert and, in the summer, the ground temp will easily exceed 150 degrees, so I utilize old Ma Nature for drying my holsters most of the time. To me, the way to dry holsters in order for them to reach the maximum rigidity (and retain it) is to remove as much moisture as quickly as possible without exceeding about 150 degrees on the heat side. Excess heat will cook, burn, crack etc. your leather. Old Ma nature will do a great job of drying for me in pretty rapid fashion, as our humidity level is well below the 20% mark most of the year. As to utilizing neatsfoot oil, I do one final LIGHT spray over the entire surface (inside also) with an airbrush.....this, after drying. I allow it to absorb (oil doesn't really dry) for about 24 hrs, then spray on two LIGHT coats of an acrylic finish (my standard is a 50/50 mix of Mop and Glow and water) over a period of an hour or so. It works best if the leather is warm. This stuff actually absorbs into the leather a bit. For a final mellow sheen I rub in a small amount of neutral shoe polish into the piece by hand (no rag, applicator etc. ..... just fingers) and buff to a final polish. Almost all of my holsters are made from a double layer of leather bonded together, and, since the rigidity or firmness is created in just the grain portion of the hide, this gives me two layers of firmness and...a lined holster to boot. I use oil only to replace any that may have been displaced by the dying and wet molding ....... nothing more. Now, I never have had one crack and I feel that the slight touch of oil just keeps the hide "healthy", and, that's the way I was taught.. Notice that I emphasize LIGHT coats ........... like in 'mist' it on with and airbrush. Generally, more ain't better. Mike

[Lobo]

Cattle Hide:

You have touched on a subject that has been the source of several heated exchanges. Here is my opinion:

The vegetable tanning process removes most of the natural moisture in a hide. The wet-forming process (with or without forced drying or heat applied) removes even more moisture. The completed holster will be required to flex during use as it conforms to the belt and body, and the weapon is inserted and withdrawn.

I use a modest application of neatsfoot oil as the first step in my 4-part finishing process. In my opinion, this replenishes some of the natural moisture in the leather and allows the leather to flex without cracking. As our friend Katsass has noted, neatsfoot oil does not dry, but remains infused within the fibers of the leather. The oil will also migrate within the leather fibers until it is evenly distributed.

Of course, too much neatsfoot oil will make the leather limp and useless for the purpose. I apply only one time, and only to the exterior surfaces (the flesh side will absorb so rapidly that there is little control over how much is applied).

This has worked well for me over the past 39 years, and I know of quite a few holsters that I made back in the 1970's that are still in use today. In fact, an old friend and customer recently passed away and his son called me to report that his father's pistols and holsters were now his and he will be using them. I made one of those for my friend's birthday present in 1976, several years before the son was born.

Now we can wait for those of differing opinions to add their absolute condemnation of any uses for neatsfoot oil! Occasionally there will be a well developed bit of knowledge, rather than simply another strong opinion.

Best regards.

[marine mp]

Cattle Hide, I will add my 2-non-cents, although the last 3 posters have covered the bases quite well. Leather is skin...plain and simple. Skin on people, demands the same care when it gets dried out. We put lotion on our skin when it is dried out. Whats the difference. I respectfully dis-agree, with "Bear-Man", only to the extent that I don't liberally apply the neatsfoot oil. I apply a "light" coating to the exterior after casing and forming. Again, as you stated, ask 12 people and get 12 different answers. Being a new convert to "leather", don't try to re-invent the wheel, I believe when we start out in this endevor, we make it to difficult . The leather artists that are on this forum, have untold experience and have done the homework for you. Take what they have to offer. They all give it willingly and have years of talent. Don't go out and spend a lot of $$$$$$ on stuff that you'll find is un-usable to yourself as a new artist. I've done this for years and still sew by hand. I do not do this as a business, I do it as a hobby, there-fore cannot justify a big expense. Buy a single shoulder of good quality, some simple hand tools and see how it works out for you. Just my opinion and it ain't worth a whole lot, except to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyways, welcome and Semper-fi MIke

[billymac814]

For what it's worth: I oil all of my holsters with a light coat of pure neatsfoot oil as soon as it's dry. I dry in front of a fan or hung above a space heater. I'm going to make a drying cabinet as soon as I get a bigger shop space. You'll find that with so many different products that have different purposes there is almost a limitless combination of finishing steps one could have and it's easy to go insane hearing everyones different methods and wondering if one of those combinations is the "right" one. I went through a lot of different products and methods before I found something that worked for me. Find someone who's work you like and find out what they do and try that first.

[Nooj]

Great topic, Cattle Hide. I've been curious about this as well.

As far as replenishing the oils lost in the hide- Does using oil dye affect or contribute to that? I know it contains oils and spirits... but isn't it also alcohol based? That makes me think that the alcohol would negate any benefits of the small amount of oil contained in it. Seems like it doesn't soak through like neatsfoot, either; or at least the pigment doesn't.

Just thinking out loud.

Nooj

[Cattle Hide]

Thanks to those who have replied to this thread!

To Lobo: Your answer let me find at least some of the previous discussion regarding the addition of oil as part of the finishing process. You are right about the "Heat" in the discussions. However, as I believe you also said, Actual Hard Data would be great to have.

I must admit, however, I will not be building a holster bend tester to see if you really need extra oil or whatever in the finish.

To Nooj: I have no idea how much oil is included in "Oil Dye", and I bet Feibing's will not tell us exact percentages. Also, I do not believe the top tier commercial holster manufacturers will not be revealing their finishing secrets very soon..... However, if somebody wants to give up their method, I would be ready to listen!!!!

[Steven Kelley]

Also, I do not believe the top tier commercial holster manufacturers will not be revealing their finishing secrets very soon..... However, if somebody wants to give up their method, I would be ready to listen!!!!

A few weeks ago I was searching old posts, I believe on this site, and found this on holster making procedures from the late great Lou Alessi about his process. How true this is today I have no idea, but there is no mention of applying oil at any point. Here is what he said (and I retyped this from a paper copy I printed):

1. Cut the pattern

2. Dye the pattern, We dip dye using 5 gallon drums.

3. Allow the dye to flash off, then edge bevel the inside edges that will not be stitched, like the mouth, and muzzle of the pattern.

4. Crease the edges with a #3 creasing took, then apply hard wax of appropriate color to edges that will not be stitched, and polish the edges on a buffing wheel.

5. Apply the name stamp, and weapon ID.

6. Apply cement, allow to dry, apply stitch patterns, and perform stitching.

7. Machine trim all stitched edges, dye edges, and wax edges on a hot wax wheel to achieve a hard waxed edge. Buff edges to a gloss.

8. By this time, the dye has lightened up, and the leather is dry. We then re-dip into dye, or (for black) HOT water, for about 20 seconds. Insert mold, or gun, and press the leather around the gun in an arbor press with 40 durometer rubber 2" thick.

9. Gun and holster remain in press for aprox 1 minute for molding. Then the holster and gun are removed, and the leather is hand boned to enhance the lines of the weapon, and to insure correct fit, along with allowing a sight track using a 3/8" wood dowel to create a "tunnel".

10. Holster (with gun still in place) is then buffed on a horse hair brush via machine, and once again the edges are buffed to bring up the wax shine.

11. Gun is removed from holster, and holster is placed into a low heat over, (aprox 110 degs). Holsters are left to dry slowly overnight.

12. Next morning the holsters are removed from the oven and buffed again to remove any oxidation from the dye.

13. Holster is then sprayed with an acrylic finish to seal the leather, and provide a shine.

14. Back into the oven to dry as the finish is a water based formula. After drying for aprox two hours, they are given a final buff.

15. Holster are checked for flaws, and then fitted with mostly real guns to determine proper fit, and adjusted as necessary. Snaps, and hardware are applied last.

16. Bagged, and shipped to customer.

Whew! I'm tired

Lou

[billymac814]

A few weeks ago I was searching old posts, I believe on this site, and found this on holster making procedures from the late great Lou Alessi about his process. How true this is today I have no idea, but there is no mention of applying oil at any point. Here is what he said (and I retyped this from a paper copy I printed):

1. Cut the pattern

2. Dye the pattern, We dip dye using 5 gallon drums.

3. Allow the dye to flash off, then edge bevel the inside edges that will not be stitched, like the mouth, and muzzle of the pattern.

4. Crease the edges with a #3 creasing took, then apply hard wax of appropriate color to edges that will not be stitched, and polish the edges on a buffing wheel.

5. Apply the name stamp, and weapon ID.

6. Apply cement, allow to dry, apply stitch patterns, and perform stitching.

7. Machine trim all stitched edges, dye edges, and wax edges on a hot wax wheel to achieve a hard waxed edge. Buff edges to a gloss.

8. By this time, the dye has lightened up, and the leather is dry. We then re-dip into dye, or (for black) HOT water, for about 20 seconds. Insert mold, or gun, and press the leather around the gun in an arbor press with 40 durometer rubber 2" thick.

9. Gun and holster remain in press for aprox 1 minute for molding. Then the holster and gun are removed, and the leather is hand boned to enhance the lines of the weapon, and to insure correct fit, along with allowing a sight track using a 3/8" wood dowel to create a "tunnel".

10. Holster (with gun still in place) is then buffed on a horse hair brush via machine, and once again the edges are buffed to bring up the wax shine.

11. Gun is removed from holster, and holster is placed into a low heat over, (aprox 110 degs). Holsters are left to dry slowly overnight.

12. Next morning the holsters are removed from the oven and buffed again to remove any oxidation from the dye.

13. Holster is then sprayed with an acrylic finish to seal the leather, and provide a shine.

14. Back into the oven to dry as the finish is a water based formula. After drying for aprox two hours, they are given a final buff.

15. Holster are checked for flaws, and then fitted with mostly real guns to determine proper fit, and adjusted as necessary. Snaps, and hardware are applied last.

16. Bagged, and shipped to customer.

Whew! I'm tired

Lou

That was an interesting read, I will still be oiling my holsters though. I did notice that he starts them and finishes them the next day, when I'm in a rush and need to have one done quick I ommit the oiling because it essentially cuts a day off my time not waiting for the oil to soak in and the color return to normal. I wonder if that has any reason why he doesn't oil. It's interesting he re dipped them in dye to do the molding, I take it he didn't use white stitching?