Redheaded Nerdgirl Seeking To Emulate Same

[Cavatica]

Hey all!

So I am super-duper new to leatherwork. I have plenty of experience as your standard nerdgirl cosplay costumer, including a LITTLE bit of sewing work with leather -- Exhibit A -- but I've never tried wet-forming the stuff, or tooling it or any of that other fancy business.

I have a friend in real life who's worked with leather a ton, and he's already proved a valuable resource in a lot of regards. But I'm also attempting to try some stuff he hasn't yet, which is where you all come in!

About two weeks ago, I got it into my head that for this year's Dragon*Con, I'd like to try doing Felicia Day's Tallis costume from the upcoming Dragon Age: Redemption web series. It's important to note that the series hasn't actually AIRED yet, but a) I'm a new redhead, Felicia Day is awesome, and c) everyone's already done her Codex outfit from The Guild. Plus, this will involve learning new skills, which is important if I want to be any kind of costumer worth a damn, right?

The costume looks like this.

I realize I could do this with foam or cloth or any number of other materials, but it sure looks to me like it's made of leather, and that's how I'd like to do it. (Incidentally, I reached out to the costume designer, Shawna Trpcic, who was very nice but who wouldn't tell me what the material is before the web series' actual release. So I get to guess.)

I've already figured out about how many pieces I'm going to need to make, and I've drafted a few sketchy preliminary patterns. I have a dressform that's pretty close to my dimensions, so I'll probably be working with that for most of this process. My PLAN is to do paper templates, use those to make air-drying earthenware clay molds, and then work the leather over the clay molds. My friend and the interwebs tell me this should work, provided I make the molds a little deeper than I want the actual design to be, but I'm open to advice if you guys have better suggestions!

Here are some of my questions:

1. What is the best way to draft a pattern for the, ahh, curviest part of the breastplate? Breasts are curved, and paper is flat. With fabric, you solve this problem through darts and curved seams; obviously, leather is a little bit different. Should I draw the pattern out flat and expect it to stretch once I'm sculpting, or should I transfer it from the dressform to the paper while taking the curved surface into account?

2. Similarly: should my molds -- clay or otherwise -- be flat or curved to fit the contours of my body? I'm not really worried about this for the thigh pieces, bracers, and spaulders, or even the flat part of the breastplate, but I really don't know how I'm going to attack my boobs (TWSS). Should I do the design flat and then stretch it out over the dressform, or should I curve the armor FIRST and THEN mold the design?

3. That breastplate looks to be three pieces to me, but even with the screengrabs I've taken from an Xplay interview, it's really hard to tell. What do you all think?

4. I've read all kinds of stuff about the best weight to use for leather armor. I'm given to understand 6-10 oz. veg leather is the best. Is that right?

5. Should I be looking for green leather, or should I be looking for another, flatter color that I then paint or dye on my own?

I tweeted Felicia to ask if there were any other shots of the costume available; she wrote back (!) to say she'd try to release a few over the next couple of weeks, but "the next couple of weeks" is a scary timeline when Dragon*Con is only about 40 days away -- and I have a full-time job!

So if anyone wants to walk me through this, I would be super, super grateful. I realize this is a LOT of questions. Even a few tips or starting points would be immensely helpful to me. Thank you!

[TwinOaks]

To avoid a LOT of typing, I'll ask you to type "leather corset" in the search box at the top right hand corner. There are several threads that happen to cover a good bit of you molding/patterning questions.

You mention 6-10 oz leather......that's a pretty big difference. Each "ounce" of leather is 1/64th of an inch, so 10/64th = 5/32 inch. For wet formed leather, that is pretty thick. For reference a lot of us holster/sheath makers use 8oz leather for things that will be carried on the belt. 5-6oz for in the waistband concealed holsters. 16 oz (1/4 inch) for gun belts. It can get pretty stiff at those thicknesses, and I'm not sure you'd want to form something that thick for your bust due to ...ummm....chaffing.

One thing you definitely want to do is PM Johanna and tell her you want access to the 'adult' section. We don't have porn, but we do have leather corsets, etc., in there, and this project of yours appears to be along the same lines...in fact, some of the search results I mentioned above are in the 'adult' section.

For getting your pattern, perhaps the easiest way to do it is duct tape (wrap in saran wrap first). You can pretty much build the outfit, then cut it off and make cuts/darts as needed to flatten the pattern.

[Cavatica]

Thank you for the quick response!

I'll definitely take a look at the corsetry posts. I'd been doing searches for "armor" and "breastplate" and a couple other bits that yielded results, but I hadn't thought about going the corset route -- primarily because I do have a few leather corsets (one I made and one I bought), but they were both sewn, not molded. And, well, they're underbusts, so those won't really help me with bewbage issues.

I realize there's a pretty big difference between 6 and 10 oz -- that was just the range people seemed to recommend in general. What would you recommend?

There's another shot of Felicia's getup that seems to suggest the corset/breastplate thingie is lined with fabric (you can tell by ogling her left boob; there's definitely some beige, cottony-looking fabric lining the top), and I'm guessing that was specifically done to mitigate issues of, um, chafing.

I'll shoot Johanna a note! Thank you!

To avoid a LOT of typing, I'll ask you to type "leather corset" in the search box at the top right hand corner. There are several threads that happen to cover a good bit of you molding/patterning questions.

You mention 6-10 oz leather......that's a pretty big difference. Each "ounce" of leather is 1/64th of an inch, so 10/64th = 5/32 inch. For wet formed leather, that is pretty thick. For reference a lot of us holster/sheath makers use 8oz leather for things that will be carried on the belt. 5-6oz for in the waistband concealed holsters. 16 oz (1/4 inch) for gun belts. It can get pretty stiff at those thicknesses, and I'm not sure you'd want to form something that thick for your bust due to ...ummm....chaffing.

One thing you definitely want to do is PM Johanna and tell her you want access to the 'adult' section. We don't have porn, but we do have leather corsets, etc., in there, and this project of yours appears to be along the same lines...in fact, some of the search results I mentioned above are in the 'adult' section.

For getting your pattern, perhaps the easiest way to do it is duct tape (wrap in saran wrap first). You can pretty much build the outfit, then cut it off and make cuts/darts as needed to flatten the pattern.

[dirtclod]

I've never made anything like what she is wearing. But it looks to me like a bra and corset with a second piece added onto the corset. I would think that you could cut the bra part oversize some and mold it on dress form and then cut it out. Might work.

[TwinOaks]

After looking at the second pic of FD, I don't think it's leather. I'd guess it's neoprene, heat molded on a press.

BUT...you can still make YOURS out of leather.

[Art]

It is not apparent in the still shot, however in the video it is apparent that the whole bra/corset thing is made quite like a mask and appears to be one piece from the way it moves with her. They probably took a body mold, cast a dummy then built up the bra/corset on the dummy, then cast a mold from that. They could make many outfits from that mold and airbrush the color. To get something in leather that both fits and moves that well will be darned near impossible, much less tooling the darned thing. My suggestion would be to get a waterproof body form and drape a piece of wet leather over the form and bone it out to contour, after dry, cut and fit, then airbrush details, don't try to tool it, just paint or dye it. It will NOT be comfortable.

You really need to talk to studio makeup and costumers, not leather pounders.

Now the Boots, Belts, Pads, et al are right up our alley.

Art

Thank you for the quick response!

I'll definitely take a look at the corsetry posts. I'd been doing searches for "armor" and "breastplate" and a couple other bits that yielded results, but I hadn't thought about going the corset route -- primarily because I do have a few leather corsets (one I made and one I bought), but they were both sewn, not molded. And, well, they're underbusts, so those won't really help me with bewbage issues.

I realize there's a pretty big difference between 6 and 10 oz -- that was just the range people seemed to recommend in general. What would you recommend?

There's another shot of Felicia's getup that seems to suggest the corset/breastplate thingie is lined with fabric (you can tell by ogling her left boob; there's definitely some beige, cottony-looking fabric lining the top), and I'm guessing that was specifically done to mitigate issues of, um, chafing.

I'll shoot Johanna a note! Thank you!

[amuckart]

I've already figured out about how many pieces I'm going to need to make, and I've drafted a few sketchy preliminary patterns. I have a dressform that's pretty close to my dimensions, so I'll probably be working with that for most of this process. My PLAN is to do paper templates, use those to make air-drying earthenware clay molds, and then work the leather over the clay molds. My friend and the interwebs tell me this should work, provided I make the molds a little deeper than I want the actual design to be, but I'm open to advice if you guys have better suggestions!

Is the dress form curvy enough that you can saran-wrap it and mould directly onto there? That'd make life much easier. If it isn't, can you construct buildups for it?

Failing that, I'd make a papier-mâché body mould and cast it in plaster of paris which will dry harder and faster than clay will. Consider how you will line it and what with (trust me you will want to line it) and either adjust the cast from there with body filler or very thick plaster or form the leather over the lining.

From the second picture you linked to the parts are quite thick, I think TwinOaks is right, what they're using is probably moulded foam rubber. Not to say you can't do it with leather, you absolutely can but it will look slightly different because of the thickness. If you want to pursue the route of doing it in rubber rather than leather you're probably better to approach the shoulders and body armour as something more in line with a sculpted foam prosthetic than actual armour. Have a look at http://costumes.glit.../witchblade.htm for an idea.

Here are some of my questions:

1. What is the best way to draft a pattern for the, ahh, curviest part of the breastplate? Breasts are curved, and paper is flat. With fabric, you solve this problem through darts and curved seams; obviously, leather is a little bit different. Should I draw the pattern out flat and expect it to stretch once I'm sculpting, or should I transfer it from the dressform to the paper while taking the curved surface into account?

If you're going to mould it, don't stress too much about the pattern, get it roughly to shape and fix the details once it's formed over the mould.

2. Similarly: should my molds -- clay or otherwise -- be flat or curved to fit the contours of my body? I'm not really worried about this for the thigh pieces, bracers, and spaulders, or even the flat part of the breastplate, but I really don't know how I'm going to attack my boobs (TWSS). Should I do the design flat and then stretch it out over the dressform, or should I curve the armor FIRST and THEN mold the design?

You'll be distorting the leather quite dramatically to form the cups so curve then texture.

3. That breastplate looks to be three pieces to me, but even with the screengrabs I've taken from an Xplay interview, it's really hard to tell. What do you all think?

It's made to look like three parts, but it probably isn't. If you want it to move at all when you make it in leather, you'll want to make it as three parts though. The look won't be quite the same however.

Do you have any pictures of the back, or ideas on how you'll do that? (Given that

, it's probably a slingback )

4. I've read all kinds of stuff about the best weight to use for leather armor. I'm given to understand 6-10 oz. veg leather is the best. Is that right?

10oz would be great for armour if you were wanting something for SCA where someone was actually going to hit you. I wouldn't go over 6-7oz for this. much more than that and you'll have a heck of a time forming it.

5. Should I be looking for green leather, or should I be looking for another, flatter color that I then paint or dye on my own?

I'd get russet and dye it yourself, but something to note is that the colour of that is quite varied rather than a flat green all over so it won't be a simple single-application dye job, you'll want to airbrush it to get the colours right.

[Ladykahu]

I have done a bit of costuming (not leather, theatrical stuff) and I would do the bust in 5 parts, 3 front and you would probably get away with 2 on the back , also looking at the first picture it looks to me like its joined down the sides. If you read a bit more on breastplates there are some guys who are 'hinging' the armour a bit, a technique along those lines might make it more wearable. Or you might get away with a suede join down the sides for a bit more movement.

I guess with the molding the breastplate part.. it will depend on how large you are, if your a similar size then it should be ok. I would be doing a light foam layer then soft cloth if it was me wearing it to stop any rubbing issues. Or maybe di-sect an padded bra and stitch the cups into the lining.

Keep us posted, I am keen to see photos of how you get on.

and if you want real inspiration.. check out 'princes' armour.. his stuff is truly awe inspiring

Natalie

[Kevin]

When I enlarge the photos, it looks stitched to me. Maybe it's the pixelation from enlarging, but I think it's padded and quilted using lightweight garment leather and Frenched edges.

Kevin

[Cavatica]

Wow! These are all fantastic suggestions!

I'm aware the original piece probably isn't leather -- my pal Jeremy and I couldn't figure out, just looking at it, what it's really made out of, but neoprene seems as good a guess as any. Unfortunately, my neoprene press is off at the shop, so... ;> The other thing to consider is that this is supposed to be in the world of Dragon Age, so I think natural materials would look more "authentic" than foam and such.

It also seems like everyone's opinion is split as to whether the bodice (let's call it that, anyway) is either three pieces in front or one. It DOES look like a single piece to me as well, but as a few people have pointed out, that would be pretty damn uncomfortable. Three pieces (and possibly two in the back, depending on how I want to get IN to this thing) seem more manageable to me. Probably more visually interesting as well.

I do have a few other low-res shots of various other bits of the costume. They are:

Sideview, with a better view of the fastener used on the top pieces (I think this may be more to hold her daggers on her back than to hold the garment together)

Back, with... well, cloak (really just a hood) and daggers

Underarm, for a view of the spaulders and how they're attached (just a couple of straps under the arms)

There's also a shot of the hood in use, but that's not very informative about the bodice.

I did also notice that it appears the bodice is sewn together along the sides. I don't know how I want to achieve that, though I've seen some good suggestions here. Maybe just go old school and lace those bits together? If I DO go with three sections for the front part of the bodice, how would I attach them to one another in a nice, seamless way?

Thank you all for all your help so far!

Edited July 25, 2011 by Cavatica