Beginner Needs Some Advice!

[BrushyHillGuide]

OK folks, take it easy on me - this is my first try at tooling leather. I need a new set of spur straps, so I thought I'd try making one. Below is a picture of where I'm at right now. I drew the design freehand on paper and then transferred it.

Obviously, I have some control issues with my knife and I have a lot of undercut- especially on the fine points. I'm going to be working on that.

I'm also struggling with dyeing - the dye that I got in my little Tandy starter pack is really 'goopy' and I'm having a lot of difficulty applying is smoothly and evenly. Is it supposed to be thick and goopy? I would think that it would work better if it was a lot thinner and more like liquid; so it would go on more quickly and evenly. Am I missing something or doing it wrong? Is there a trick to getting a smooth and even application? Is there a BETTER dye brand to use?

What I'm really struggling with is trying to find a way to use dye in order to shade things like the feathers - like I do when I'm painting. I do a lot of ink on paper painting (like watercolor only more permanent) and I think there's a way to apply the same technique to leather. Ink and dye are essentially the same and leather is sure no more porous that water color paper or board. What I'm going for is a tying together of painting and leather work but I don't want to use any colors other than the earthy traditional leather tones. Has anyone on here ever tried to do this? I'm pretty confident that I can do it if I can find a thinner dye to "paint" with or if I can thin out the dye I'm using. Does anyone have any suggestions?

I would sure appreciate any suggestions, critiques, or tips you can give me on ANY aspect of what I'm doing (or not doing) to improve my work! Y'all are the experts!

Thanks!

Nick

[WinterBear]

By the "dye in the starter pack", what is the stuff exactly? Some of those starter kits come with one or more of the following: antiquing gel, all-in-one, hi-lite, and those just labeled "dye". I have quite a few of the Eco-Flo dyes (not the hi-lites, all-in-one, or gel), and they are all very liquid, much like Rit fabric dye, and mix easily with water.

As far as the tips with the undercuts, the nice folks here tell me to not join cuts at narrow tips as they'll lift up, so instead, I stop just short of cutting all the way to the point.

There are some really great figure carvers and dyers on here, and they'll be able to offer you some better advice than I. I expect they'll be along shortly.

With more practice with your swivel knife and tooling under your belt, you'll really knock the socks off of people with this design. It certainly is pretty dang good for a first try!

The design itself is great. I do have one structural concern with it though. That wing feather that extends past anything else will be prone to a lot of wear and will probably get mangled. It isn't wide enough by itself to support more than a very-light-to-light amount of wear. It'd be ok for something that was going to get very little abuse and direct wear, such as a barrette or hair ornament, or as part of a mask, but as a spur strap, if that feather gets rubbed with a jean leg or clipped with a boot, it's going to get mauled and maybe torn off.

[BrushyHillGuide]

By the "dye in the starter pack", what is the stuff exactly? Some of those starter kits come with one or more of the following: antiquing gel, all-in-one, hi-lite, and those just labeled "dye". I have quite a few of the Eco-Flo dyes (not the hi-lites, all-in-one, or gel), and they are all very liquid, much like Rit fabric dye, and mix easily with water.

As far as the tips with the undercuts, the nice folks here tell me to not join cuts at narrow tips as they'll lift up, so instead, I stop just short of cutting all the way to the point.

There are some really great figure carvers and dyers on here, and they'll be able to offer you some better advice than I. I expect they'll be along shortly.

With more practice with your swivel knife and tooling under your belt, you'll really knock the socks off of people with this design. It certainly is pretty dang good for a first try!

The design itself is great. I do have one structural concern with it though. That wing feather that extends past anything else will be prone to a lot of wear and will probably get mangled. It isn't wide enough by itself to support more than a very-light-to-light amount of wear. It'd be ok for something that was going to get very little abuse and direct wear, such as a barrette or hair ornament, or as part of a mask, but as a spur strap, if that feather gets rubbed with a jean leg or clipped with a boot, it's going to get mauled and maybe torn off.

On the dye - the darker color is "Colorant Hi-Lite Raisin" and the lighter color is "Hi-Lite Color Stain Saddle Tan" I guess I used the wrong stuff? LOL!

I kinda figured that those wing tips would get messed up with actual use but since they're for me for work, I don't really care if they get messed up - they'll hold my spurs on anyway, LOL! I just thought it would be fun, artistically, to make them that way.

Thanks for the advice and the encouragement! I see all the flaws and it drives me nuts but at least I'm learning what NOT to do!

Nick

[dirtclod]

I haven't used any of Tandy's dye. But from i hear it's a water based dye. Get a little bit out and use a little water and see if that helps. The other thing you can do is use acryclic paints and mix to the color you want. Just guessing i would say their a lot cheaper than the Tandy dye. I like your eagle design.

[King's X]

By the "dye in the starter pack", what is the stuff exactly? Some of those starter kits come with one or more of the following: antiquing gel, all-in-one, hi-lite, and those just labeled "dye". I have quite a few of the Eco-Flo dyes (not the hi-lites, all-in-one, or gel), and they are all very liquid, much like Rit fabric dye, and mix easily with water.

As far as the tips with the undercuts, the nice folks here tell me to not join cuts at narrow tips as they'll lift up, so instead, I stop just short of cutting all the way to the point.

There are some really great figure carvers and dyers on here, and they'll be able to offer you some better advice than I. I expect they'll be along shortly.

With more practice with your swivel knife and tooling under your belt, you'll really knock the socks off of people with this design. It certainly is pretty dang good for a first try!

It sounds like you ended up with a goopy mess. Please remember that the Eco-Flo products are water based so I would not suggest 'thinner.' If you want to do it right, I would suggest Tony Laier's Eco-Flo dyeing book that is sold at Tandy. If you use the Fiebings dyes, they also have their own book on using their products. You can use their regular color dye for the work you want to accomplish, but be sure to use a good sealant or all of your work will go to waste after one use on your hard working boots.

Winterbear is correct. When cutting points and some other areas on your project that will receive a lot of stress like corners or points (feathers) you do not want to have your cut points meet. You want to make sure to stop short. This is also the same for crossing lines. The leather "may" lift with repeated use and weakening the leather over time. Chances are that your tooling will not stop with just the cutting, so something like beveling will join that corner and it will most likely look no different.

On your undercutting, just try your best to keep your saddle (where your finger rests) pointing up. Try not to allow the saddle & barrel sway from side to side. The finger on your saddle applies direct pressure downward and your thumb and middle finger just guide and rotate your barrel. If you have the feeling like your knife is dragging, you might want to strop it and/or sharpen the blade.

I am not a figure carver or great dyer. I always practice with my swivel knife on a piece of leather before I start a piece and many times in between projects. Simple circles and turns plus stop and starts are good exercises.

As always, thanks for posting a picture......it looks great. Keep up your practice!

Edited September 20, 2011 by King's X

[WinterBear]

On the dye - the darker color is "Colorant Hi-Lite Raisin" and the lighter color is "Hi-Lite Color Stain Saddle Tan" I guess I used the wrong stuff? LOL!

I kinda figured that those wing tips would get messed up with actual use but since they're for me for work, I don't really care if they get messed up - they'll hold my spurs on anyway, LOL! I just thought it would be fun, artistically, to make them that way.

Thanks for the advice and the encouragement! I see all the flaws and it drives me nuts but at least I'm learning what NOT to do!

Nick

No, not the wrong stuff, exactly, but stuff that is meant to be rubbed or wiped onto the tooling after the leather is sealed in whole or in part. Use the search bar up top with the words Hi-lite and Antiquing, or Hi-lite and Antique, or just hi-lite, and you'll get some idea of how to use that stuff. Look in the sub-forum for Dyes and Finishes--(http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showforum=18)-- there are a lot of great threads in there about which to use when, in what order, what not to do, and comparisons of the different types of dyes and methods.

This thread has a video of how the antiquing gel or paste is generally used: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=33980&st=0&p=210550&hl=+hi-lite%20+antiquing&fromsearch=1entry210550 Pay close attention to where he says that he's put neatsfoot oil and Neat-Lac on the piece before he started rubbing the paste on there. If you don't all of the leather will dye dark, and the same color. He also seals the antique on there with Tan-Kote and Neat-Lac. You can also dye your project, seal it, antique it, and seal again to keep the antique on. I haven't used hi-lite, but expect its purpose is similar--it's meant to get down in the cuts and tooling marks and darken them.

[BrushyHillGuide]

I haven't used any of Tandy's dye. But from i hear it's a water based dye. Get a little bit out and use a little water and see if that helps. The other thing you can do is use acryclic paints and mix to the color you want. Just guessing i would say their a lot cheaper than the Tandy dye. I like your eagle design.

Thanks Dirtclod!

It's a pretty traditional American tattoo style eagle. I'm semi-retired from tattooing now (only doing very large projects that interest me) but I spent 16 years tattooing almost every day and I only do designs that I draw. Given the current popularity of tattoo designs in all sorts of clothing (and everything else) I thought there might be a market for leather work that draws from either traditional Americana style tattoo designs or Japanese tattoo designs - my particular specialty. All I have to do now is LEARN TO TOOL! LOL!

I was tempted to jump into acrylics because I know how they'll work but I don't really want to put actual colors (red, green, yellow, etc) on the leather right now because I want to work with natural colors and try to stay with actual leather tones. If I color everything they will be loud and showy (like rodeo chaps) and not as simple or classy as traditional leather work. I've never been a big fan of 'showy' leather work- when I rodeoed I HATED having to wear flashy colored chaps but it was just part of the game and they helped judges score you. Otherwise, I would have just worn a pair of work chaps, LOL! So, before I get into actually painting any leather, I want to do everything I can to bring the designs out by only using traditional leather dyes.

Thanks again, dirtclod!

Nick

[Ferg]

Visit this web site to see what is possible with "Spirit Dyes" (alcohol based).

This gentleman does some of the finest work on this planet, carving and coloring.

Hope his gallery gives you inspiration, I did not intend it to be over powering.)

http://petermain.com/

ferg

Thanks Dirtclod!

It's a pretty traditional American tattoo style eagle. I'm semi-retired from tattooing now (only doing very large projects that interest me) but I spent 16 years tattooing almost every day and I only do designs that I draw. Given the current popularity of tattoo designs in all sorts of clothing (and everything else) I thought there might be a market for leather work that draws from either traditional Americana style tattoo designs or Japanese tattoo designs - my particular specialty. All I have to do now is LEARN TO TOOL! LOL!

I was tempted to jump into acrylics because I know how they'll work but I don't really want to put actual colors (red, green, yellow, etc) on the leather right now because I want to work with natural colors and try to stay with actual leather tones. If I color everything they will be loud and showy (like rodeo chaps) and not as simple or classy as traditional leather work. I've never been a big fan of 'showy' leather work- when I rodeoed I HATED having to wear flashy colored chaps but it was just part of the game and they helped judges score you. Otherwise, I would have just worn a pair of work chaps, LOL! So, before I get into actually painting any leather, I want to do everything I can to bring the designs out by only using traditional leather dyes.

Thanks again, dirtclod!

Nick