Vinegaroon: Can You Ever Really Get Rid Of The Smell?

[wizard of tragacanth]

I am new to leather work and new to vinegaroon. I made a batch of vinegaroon and used it on a belt project. Color wise... fantastic... I couldn't ask for anything better. However, the belt continues to smell like a bait box. Did I do something wrong or is this normal?

If there is no way to eliminate the smell, I will have to abandon the thought of ever using vinegaroon again. In my mind, one of the nice things about leather is that it smells good.

Nick

[TwinOaks]

Don't worry Nick, the smell WILL go away.

As the batch ages, the vinegar (acetic acid) reduces....or gets all used up. That's a lot of what you're smelling. You can also help get rid of it with the baking soda neutralizer, though every time I've tried it, it seems to just bead up on the surface. My first batch eventually got the point that the brew itself had an odor, but once it hit the leather there was almost none. The second batch is getting there, and even with just a cold water rinse, the smell is gone by the time it dries. While it's drying, I can still smell it a little bit, but that's only if I get close and really snort the leather.

Give your brew a couple of weeks to mature and I think you'll see/smell a difference in it. New batches are typically very strong, but they do mellow.

[mlapaglia]

I agree, I have some leather that I dyed with the vinegaroon 4 days ago and then dipped it in some baking soda and water and it does not smell of vinegar at all now. It just takes some time. This was 8/9 oz and I soaked it in the vinegaroon for 5 minutes because I had stained with with some eco-flo and I wanted to make sure it covered it up.

Hang in there it will be ok soon.

Michael

[wizard of tragacanth]

Well, I am actually talking about the smell ON the belt. Perhaps I used the 'roon too soon? The belt was done around three weeks ago and still smells.

Perhaps I should have let the brew age a little longer or expose it to open air for a while. I really soaked the belt in it and probably used at least three times as much as was needed. Then, the next day, I finished it with Sno Seal... probably sealing in the smell, so to speak.

So, I can see several ways to reduce the odor possibly... airing out the batch before use, using only as much as needed on the project and no more, and then perhaps airing the project before finishing.

Nick

[wizard of tragacanth]

I used a baking soda dip when I did the initial vinegaroon treatment. Do you think that another dose of baking soda would help... after the Sno Seal? I guess it is worth a try because I will otherwise throw this belt out. Perhaps another error of mine was that I didn't leave it in the baking soda bath long enough.

Nick

Edited October 6, 2011 by wizard of tragacanth

[ChuckBurrows]

1) As noted your mix was most too "young" and or not enough iron/steel was adde - you should keep adding the iron/steel until it quits dissolving it which means all of the acid is used up as well and it's the acid th causes the odor - i.e. if you've still got a strong vinegar odor you haven't used enough iron/steel. Once hte mix won't take anymore iron let it all settle and siphon/filter off the liquid ONLY - save the lees - aka the leftover iron/steel - and use it the next batch. Then let the liquid air out for a couple of days until any residual odor dissipates. Yes teh blacking will work before all the acid is "used" up but that's too soon.

2) Use the baking soda wash as noted - but DO NOT soak it for too long - the baking soda can cause alkali burn on the leather and that creates brittleness. Do this while the piece is still wet with the vinegar black - do not let dry out between stages.

3) Once done hang the finished piece in a good air flow - I use a good sized table fan and turn the piece around at times so all sides get the air flow. Do this immediately after oiling (I oil while the piece is still damp - again do not let dry out between stages), but before your final top coat.

[particle]

Chuck - it's interesting that you oil while the leather is still wet. I've always assumed "water and oil don't mix" carried over into leather work too, so I've never wanted to oil while the leather is still wet after forming. Can I ask why you do it before it's completely dry? Not having to wait could shave 12-24 hours off the overall build time...

[wizard of tragacanth]

How long should the neutralising soda bath be? I did it for approx. 30 seconds.

[ChuckBurrows]

Chuck - it's interesting that you oil while the leather is still wet. I've always assumed "water and oil don't mix" carried over into leather work too, so I've never wanted to oil while the leather is still wet after forming. Can I ask why you do it before it's completely dry? Not having to wait could shave 12-24 hours off the overall build time...

Oiling while still damp was standard ractice amongst most of the pros I learned from. The water opens the pores of the leather and by adding the oil when still damp it will absorb better - as the water dehydrates the oil is sort of "sucked" into replace the water- it also helps even out the overall absorbtion of the oil - I also dye while still damp, again the same basic principles apply. Best advice experiment on scrap and notice the difference.

How long should the neutralising soda bath be? I did it for approx. 30 seconds.

That's about the max I recommend depending on the size of the piece. Mainly just a quick immersion in the soda bath, let it set for a moment out of the bath, then rinse with clear water. and FWIW I never re-use the soda water.

[TomG]

Oiling while still damp was standard ractice amongst most of the pros I learned from. The water opens the pores of the leather and by adding the oil when still damp it will absorb better - as the water dehydrates the oil is sort of "sucked" into replace the water- it also helps even out the overall absorbtion of the oil - I also dye while still damp, again the same basic principles apply. Best advice experiment on scrap and notice the difference.

That's about the max I recommend depending on the size of the piece. Mainly just a quick immersion in the soda bath, let it set for a moment out of the bath, then rinse with clear water. and FWIW I never re-use the soda water.

I'm still experimenting with this stuff off and on till I get it right. I don't get a lot of call for black, so my experiments are sort of spread out... My vig is a couple of months old and has dissolved as much steel wool as it could.

I did a belt yesterday and it blackened great.. I used a soda rinse but left it in too long -- about 45 minutes. I then rinsed it really well and oiled it after the rinse. I THOUGHT I had used what I considered to be an ample amount of oil. It looked wet.

I hung it up to dry in front of a fan and tonight when I checked it, it was very dry and had a couple of light spots.

I added a tone of more oil and and left it to dry again.

Have I screwed it up with the soda? How much oil should I be rubbing in? I don't want it leaving oil on a pair of jeans when worn...

Thanks

Tom

[Sticky]

After i've used the vinegaroon i rub some patchouli oil into the leather and that seems to work quite well at getting rid of the smell.

[Go2Tex]

For what its worth, I recently used a batch of vinegaroon that I had made up, oh gosh, a year ago, maybe longer. Very strong batch. Very dark. Very stinky. Used it on a couple of holsters. Worked great but they did smell like vinegar. Very strong smell. Don't know if the smell went away yet. Haven't heard back. I suspect it did. Didn't seal it up. Just oil and TanKote.

I didn't soak them in the batch as the piece was too big to get into the container, so I used a wool swab to apply it, liberally. Didn't use baking soda or rince water. I'm pretty sure that would help, though. Probably a good idea. Definitely don't soak in baking soad. It will burn.

[randypants]

i've had it take up to a week for the smell to go away, but it's always gone away. letting the 'groon age properly, using the right amount of steel, and following the step-by-step procedures on this forum will get you a long way.