Knot/button Foundations

[barbiesdude]

Just curious as to what other people use for there foundations for there knots, lets say heel knots, nose buttons, romal rein buttons? I have been using para cord ring knots covered by self fusing silicone tape. It works OK but I would like to get away from synthetics as much as possible. Even though I believe that if the old time Vaqueros had had access to nylon, poly, and such, they would have probably used it. So if people could maybe post there methods of ground work, it may benefit everyone by seeing other ways to do something. Looking forward to it.

Jamie

[Aggiebraider]

The easiest and best way in my opinion is to use a strip of leather and wrap around the body of the piece. I will determine to width of the strip based on the size of the button then skive the ends so they can overlap smoothly. I will take a test strip and wrap it around how ever many times I want and then cut it and cut all of the strips the same size. I use contact cement to glue it all down as I wrap it around I will add some to the inside. Then when its dry, you can either shape it with a knife or shape it on a belt sander which is what I do. If you add successively smaller width strips and wrap them centered on what you already did, you can make the foundations really round. This is how I also do scarf slides. Its a really good way to use up scrap kangaroo since its much easier to wrap around something tight.

Hope that makes sense,

CW

[megabit]

I braid almost exclusively in rawhide and seldom use anything other than a knot tied in rawhide as a foundation. If you do a 4 strand ring knot by pushing 2 strands through the body of whatever you are working on, that button isn’t going to ever slide up or down. I will use floral tape to smooth things or as a little filler sometimes. I would only use paracord if project was being done in paracord. I do recall hearing that Bill Dorance would use bondo (I think over a ring knot) as a foundation. I also recall someone telling me they used those balls from bungee cords to make shuflys. I think I might give that a try next time I make a shu fly.

[Leatherpownder]

Sound advice.

[curlyjo]

I,ve been using a hot glue gun to even up heel knots and then shaving with a SHARP knife to make it even before putting on the heel knot. For under nose buttons I cut and split a long piece of leather and bevel the edges and wrap to increase the size. But thats only if needed. It,s generally about less than a 1/2" wide and makes the nose button a little more defined. Under small buttons just tuck a small string under the braid 2 or 3 times and it won't go anywhere. I hope this makes sense. Brad

[barbiesdude]

Hey Curlyjo,

How do you secure the ends of your leather piece for the nose button?

Jamie

  On 10/19/2011 at 3:28 AM, curlyjo said:

I,ve been using a hot glue gun to even up heel knots and then shaving with a SHARP knife to make it even before putting on the heel knot. For under nose buttons I cut and split a long piece of leather and bevel the edges and wrap to increase the size. But thats only if needed. It,s generally about less than a 1/2" wide and makes the nose button a little more defined. Under small buttons just tuck a small string under the braid 2 or 3 times and it won't go anywhere. I hope this makes sense. Brad

[curlyjo]

First thing is I put the foundation to a ring button on each side to hold the nose button in place. Then point the leather strip at an angle and glue the start down. Tie a little piece of string to hold your glued end down. Then wrap the leather all the way to the other end and taper that end and glue and tie down again. I've also used nylon string to firm it up. Don't use jute string unless you cover with tape. All the stringy ends start showing up through the finished knot. Hope this helps. Brad

[barbiesdude]

Yep, Makes sense. Thanks a bunch. Do you use regular contact cement to glue down the ends, and do you glue down all the way across?

[curlyjo]

Just regular contact cement. And sometimes as I'm winding the leather around I'll put a dab to help hold in place, especially towards the end as it helps hold in place while you finish, trim and glue all at the same time. Brad

[barbiesdude]

Thanks for the tips Brad, I'll be giving it a shot in the next day or two. I've started a hackamore and got the core covered in 12 pl. and the two ring knots on for the nose button. It's gonna be a real "raggy" "floppy" one as I didn't realize that just a 4 strand reata like braid would be that limber when covered. I thought about starting a new one but figured I'd go ahead and finish just to get one under my belt.

Jamie

[knot much]

  On 10/24/2011 at 11:48 AM, barbiesdude said:

Thanks for the tips Brad, I'll be giving it a shot in the next day or two. I've started a hackamore and got the core covered in 12 pl. and the two ring knots on for the nose button. It's gonna be a real "raggy" "floppy" one as I didn't realize that just a 4 strand reata like braid would be that limber when covered. I thought about starting a new one but figured I'd go ahead and finish just to get one under my belt.

Jamie

I know this thread is a bit old, but I thought I'd mention a twisted rawhide core can work quite well. I did one as described in Grant's books. Just make sure the strip has an even thickness, otherwise it will have soft spots that will bend easier and you'll end up with a weird shaped bosal.

[8thsinner]

I would tend to avoid glue if I can and use methods that are removable and cause no damage in case there is ever a need to take it apart.

I will usually use strips of leather wrapped on, using thin stuff if I can makes it neater.

Trim the shape with a very sharp knife, and use a slim bar of steel under it to make sure I don't cut through.

Then at the outer edges of it through the braid under, attach either dental floss or artificial sinew, and wrap it (flat) as if I was doing a button, ie 20-30 degrees apart past the last one on each pass. every now and again going through the braid again. The artificial sinew spreads out to about 5mm width so it works far better than dental floss which only spreads about 2mm-3mm

I used to use tape to smooth the finished look but don't much find the need any more, if the floss is good and tight and even, it shapes it nicely enough. And helps to provide a better grip for the next knot.

If I am out of material, I will make more knots using what ever I am braiding with, usually a Spanish ring, if I need a rein type knot, or if it's for the end of a whip, a Spanish ring followed by a turks head followed by what ever know I am using.

[bucksnort]

I could add a couple of ideas to this. I have used Sealtex track bandage with good results. It is latex rubber that only sticks to itself. Since it is rubber, it won't slip when wrapped tight & can be removed with no marks left. As an added benefit, it is tan in color, so it doesn't show thru if you have any gaps. I cut a strip about 1/4 in wide. I bought from ebay. Don Brown uses blue painters tape with good results. He likes it because it resists moisture & won't run any color. Buck