Newbie Undertaking Deconstruction/reconstruction...have Some Questions!

[ValleyEquine]

Hi,

I am new to leatherworking, so for a learning experience, I am deconstructing/reconstructing an older saddle in need of a few repairs and upgrades. I am currently in the deconstruction phase, and I have some questions about what I have come across, as well as regarding how I plan to proceed.

I have stripped down the saddle to remove the seat and seat jockeys, cantle binding, cantle back, and back housing.

When I removed the seat, I found a laying of nasty compressed brown fiber-ish stuff. Anyone know what this is? I'm assuming its purpose was for padding...so I'd like to replace it was something less smelly and scratchy. Maybe a 1/4" thick piece of a closed cell foam? Any suggestions?

Beneath the brown stuff I found something that totally surprised me... a large metal plate. It begins about 2-3 inches behind the swells, allowing enough room to loop the stirrup leathers around the tree bars. But then the metal place starts, covering up the gullet opening that runs down the center of the tree, continues about halfway up the cantle, and is nailed to the tree along the sides of the bars (parallel to the gullet opening). What is the metal plate doing there? Is that a factory alternative to building up a leather ground seat? I can post pics if necessary, or if anyone is interested.

Next, there is a small crack in the tree, about 1/2 of the way up the height of the cantle. Again, I can post pics if it would be helpful. But anyway, I can't make the cantle move, because that metal plate is holding everything in place. I didn't know it cracked till I removed all the leather. So, do I assume its safe? I'm thinking a crack in the cantle isn't quite as critical as a crack in the bars would be. Can I repair this somehow? Wood glue...wood putty....something else?

Also, the tree isn't totally covered in rawhide....only rawhide in a few select locations. If I remove the two major skirt panels (and possibly the leather covering the cantle and horn, but not sure about that yet....not entirely positive I could get it back on properly!) could I brush down all the tree I have exposed with "Tuff Coat"? Does anyone know if that can be purchased by a layperson in a small quantity? Or is there something better I could use to seal up and protect the tree?

Then, I want to remove the fleece on the back of the skirts, which is pretty ratty, and replace it with either wool felt or fake sheepskin (Don't think real sheepskin is in the budget for this learning-project.) Anyone have a source for the appropriate felt? I've looked around, but to find felt thick enough that it wouldn't fall apart (so, thicker than craft store felt), prices are very high. Could I buy I a 100% wool saddle pad liner (1/2" thick, 30"X"30, $13-24 depending on brand) cut it to the correct size/shape, then cement it and sew it on to my skirt leather?

Finally, the most of the leather of my saddle is in decent shape. (I'm replacing a few pieces...the rigging straps and the seat surface.) But, on my skirts and jockeys...which happen to have a floral tool/carving...there are areas on the flat, uncarved leather wear there are very tiny surface crack, just a hair's depth...from the previous owner not keeping it properly conditioned. However, oiling now does not make the cracks dissapear. Can I somehow buff these surface cracks out? Or fill them in?

Oh, one more question! I am also going to replace my stirrup leathers. However, I am not a huge fan of blevins buckles. Do I have any decent alternatives? Or if I chose an alternative, maybe I would grow to love the blevins buckles?

Thanks very much!

Edited January 5, 2012 by ValleyEquine

[ValleyEquine]

Would this be better in the "Saddle Construction" area?

[horsewreck]

First I would suggest you get a good book on saddle construction. The Al Stolhman books are good to get you started. As to some of your questions, that metal plate you found under the seat is the base on which the ground seat is built, often called a strainer, or slang pie pan. The crack you refer to in the cantle I can't comment on without seeing it. If you are going to reline the skirts they have to be removed from the tree to do so. The stuff you found under the seat, I would guess is foam that is falling apart. The saddle as you describe it is most likely a inexpensive factory made, so I would not put much money in it if I were you. Taking apart old saddles is a good learning tool, but so is reading a good book on saddle construction. You will find that there as many ways to build a saddle as there are people building them, and you are never done learning. Good Luck..... Jeff

[ValleyEquine]

First I would suggest you get a good book on saddle construction. The Al Stolhman books are good to get you started. As to some of your questions, that metal plate you found under the seat is the base on which the ground seat is built, often called a strainer, or slang pie pan. The crack you refer to in the cantle I can't comment on without seeing it. If you are going to reline the skirts they have to be removed from the tree to do so. The stuff you found under the seat, I would guess is foam that is falling apart. The saddle as you describe it is most likely a inexpensive factory made, so I would not put much money in it if I were you. Taking apart old saddles is a good learning tool, but so is reading a good book on saddle construction. You will find that there as many ways to build a saddle as there are people building them, and you are never done learning. Good Luck..... Jeff

Thanks for the response. Since I posted my OP, I have continued to do research and learned the metal plate is a called a strainer. I have also continued "deconstruction"...I removed the skirts, and I've pried off the strainer. So no only the the fork and horn leather remain on the tree. Now that I have a pretty full view of the tree, I'm pretty confident I can repair the cantle crack and make the tree totally safe and sound.

I also think that, without a heck of a lot of money (my estimate is >$100, if I use the wool saddle pad liner to reline my skirts), I can make this saddle 100% better than it was originally. After learning what I do know, this saddle has left me shaking my head at times. The seat, for example...apparently for strainers, the strainer plate is covered with leather, but that leather covered strainer serves as a base, and then leather layers are added on top of it and shaped, as you would a leather ground seat. But with this saddle, two layers of thick but not shaped leather are glued and stapled directly to the tree, the leather covered ground plate was nailed on, then the nasty compressed fiber padding, then the top layer of the leather, which served as the seat surface. The maker (or factory machinery) also went crazy with the staple gun.

I'd love the Al Stolhman books. But, I'm sorta frustrated about costs. If I decide to get involved with saddlemaking, it can't be just for my own personal pleasure...money is just too tight for that. But even if I eventually planned on selling saddles and tack, "start up" costs are rough. To buy the books, plus the bare necessity tools I'd need, that's a good chunk of money. And then I'd have to buy the trees and leather and hardware to construct practice saddles. And then, maybe, I'd be able to sell some and start to recoup cost. But times are tough, and my finances are tight, so I'm very discouraged. I'd love to learn the craft of saddlemaking, and I'd love to construct something beautiful and useful, and I honestly think I'd be (or could become) very good at it (sorta up my alley as far as areas of talent....but don't ask me to catch a football- I'll break a bone attempting that!). But it's hard to find all the money necessary for the upfront costs, especially when there is no guarantee that I could begin recouping in a reasonably timely manner, if at all.

[justken]

Hello!..You don't have to have a fully set up shop to start.First thing you mite want to look into is getting more info.There are a couple of great magazines that you can get a LOT of good info from."The Leather Crafters & Saddlers Journal" and "Shop Talk" are well worth getting."Shop Talk" also has a big used/old tool sale every year.Dusty Johnson at Pleasant Vally Saddle Shop has a saddle making book for less than $20.00(ad in The Leather Crafter & Saddlers Journal).It'll show you the basics and a start.He also has a video.Robin Yates also has a couple books for less than $20.00 each(ad in Shop Talk).IMHO they are pretty basic books but well worth the price.The Al Stolhman books are way,way better and you will find yourself wearing the covers off them....Good luck and have fun..Ken

[ValleyEquine]

Hello!..You don't have to have a fully set up shop to start.First thing you mite want to look into is getting more info.There are a couple of great magazines that you can get a LOT of good info from."The Leather Crafters & Saddlers Journal" and "Shop Talk" are well worth getting."Shop Talk" also has a big used/old tool sale every year.Dusty Johnson at Pleasant Vally Saddle Shop has a saddle making book for less than $20.00(ad in The Leather Crafter & Saddlers Journal).It'll show you the basics and a start.He also has a video.Robin Yates also has a couple books for less than $20.00 each(ad in Shop Talk).IMHO they are pretty basic books but well worth the price.The Al Stolhman books are way,way better and you will find yourself wearing the covers off them....Good luck and have fun..Ken

Thanks for the recommendations. From reading member's review's on hear, the Al Stolhman books seem to be the most comprehensive of the books, with some of the books/videos you mentioned having major informational gaps, as well as potentially questionable (or poorly explained) methods. So, if I'm going to do it, I want to do it right. I could start with smaller projects to get down the basics of stamping, carving, finishing, sewing, etc. And having information is great, but when it comes to actually making a saddle, then I am going to need the tools and materials. The "Shop Talk" sale sounds like it would be a good place to look for affordable tools, though.

[justken]

Your right about those books/videos being somewhat lacking,but they don't cost a lot and you can still learn something from them.I still think the best way to learn how to build a saddle is to repair a bunch of them.You'll see a lot of different ways to do the same thing.Every saddle maker does things just a little differently.The Leather Crafters have a reprint pack of Pete Gorrell's saddle making series with his patterns for $84.50 and shipping that is very good.There are a several good videos on Youtube also that you can see tools and their uses.But the "best" saddle making videos are still going to cost you over $300.00.

You can go two ways with tools.You can save up to buy good tools or you can get cheeper tools to start with and use them to earn money to buy the good ones later.But good tools hold their value better so if you don't stick with saddle making,you'll have a better chance of getting your money back.Every saddle maker I've ever known was always looking to upgrade their equipment.

Without seeing the saddle you've got torn down,I'd have to say it's not a really good one to learn construction off of.Low end production saddles are made using the least amount of mat. and labor as possable.People buy them because they work and are cheep.They mostly aren't worth rebuilding.

If you'd like,you can send me a PM with a phone number and I'll try to help where I can....Ken Smith(East-West Saddle Shop,Athens ,OH)

[ValleyEquine]

Your right about those books/videos being somewhat lacking,but they don't cost a lot and you can still learn something from them.I still think the best way to learn how to build a saddle is to repair a bunch of them.You'll see a lot of different ways to do the same thing.Every saddle maker does things just a little differently.The Leather Crafters have a reprint pack of Pete Gorrell's saddle making series with his patterns for $84.50 and shipping that is very good.There are a several good videos on Youtube also that you can see tools and their uses.But the "best" saddle making videos are still going to cost you over $300.00.

You can go two ways with tools.You can save up to buy good tools or you can get cheaper tools to start with and use them to earn money to buy the good ones later.But good tools hold their value better so if you don't stick with saddle making,you'll have a better chance of getting your money back.Every saddle maker I've ever known was always looking to upgrade their equipment.

Without seeing the saddle you've got torn down,I'd have to say it's not a really good one to learn construction off of.Low end production saddles are made using the least amount of mat. and labor as possable.People buy them because they work and are cheep.They mostly aren't worth rebuilding.

If you'd like,you can send me a PM with a phone number and I'll try to help where I can....Ken Smith(East-West Saddle Shop,Athens ,OH)

Thanks very much for the help, Ken. And, as a side note, I didn't mean to sound whiny or arrogant...I know that the start up costs are something every every leather crafter must go through, whether they be a half hearted hobbyist or a nationally known saddlemaker who relies upon sales for his full income.

As far as tools, do you think there are some tools where having the high quality makes a huge difference, and then some where cheap tools do the job just as well, but maybe don't hold up quite as long? What are the most important tools to splurge on, and where can you pinch pennies, in your opinion?

I bought this saddle pretty cheap, and I think once I have it fixed, I could probably resell it for my purchase price + repair costs. But if not, that's life. It's what I have on hand, and it needs repairs, so that's what I'll do. This saddle has given me plenty of opportunity see what NOT to do, and to come up with thoughts about what I would do (or will do) instead.

Right now I'm in the process of fixing up the tree (removed everything attached to the tree). So once I've finished with the tree and am ready to start with the leather, I'll take you up on your offer.

[Go2Tex]

As far as tools, do you think there are some tools where having the high quality makes a huge difference, and then some where cheap tools do the job just as well, but maybe don't hold up quite as long? What are the most important tools to splurge on, and where can you pinch pennies, in your opinion?

Dusty Johnson's book has a good list of tools that you need. Basic stuff. No need to spend a fortune. Main thing is, you need to be able to sharpen them and use them correctly. Weaver Leather sells a round knife that comes scary sharp and it will hold that edge long enough for you to learn. Then, you will need to learn how to keep it sharp. Best advise I can give you.

I bought this saddle pretty cheap, and I think once I have it fixed, I could probably resell it for my purchase price + repair costs.

This is exactly how I got started building saddles. Crap saddle. Rebuilt it. Learned a lot doing it. Forget the cost for now. Your knowlege gained and fun doing it will be worth the cost. The tree is most likely not worth a pile of firewood. Don't put your name on it and resell it. You will regret it. Keep the saddle and ride it. Hope your horse is forgiving. Then take it apart again. Hang the tree on the wall with a sign that says: "typical junk factory made saddle tree".

[Saddlebag]

There is also info on youtube.