New Holster Model

[TwoMikes]

Yikes.... that is scary. I wonder if his pant's belt loop pushed the leather in just enough that an edge caught on the trigger, then bammo.

[malabar]

Well, the holster was available in the late '50's sometime and into about '61 or so, i don't remember who made it. Actually it was a 'pull through' holster in that the gun was pulled through where the welt would be. Adjustable spring tension helped hold the shooter in the holster. Any auto with a bunch of weight in the grip will be difficult to keep in tight I expect. I carried a Glock 21 for a while on duty and it did well in a duty holster, but I could carry my S&W 539 (all steel) which actually weighed more than the loaded Glock, while off duty because the balance was better. Anyhoo, I do hope that you have the answer to carrying a hi-rise rig. Mike

P.S. I actually carried a 3" S&W M-24 more than anything else off duty.

P.P.S. There is a pic of a semi-shoulder rig on Google Images. It shows a J Frame Smith in it but doesn't show the setup very well. With anything larger than the litte Smith the thing just didn't work too well --- especially for the money back then.

Thanks for the tip!

You know the funny thing is, I've worked on a design that uses the same principle -- a steel-reinforced paddle that held the gun above the belt. But my first prototype was a miserable failure and I was so disheartened I haven't yet gone back to it. <g>

So this one attached to the belt via those little straps that wrap around the paddle?

tk

[malabar]

Yikes.... that is scary. I wonder if his pant's belt loop pushed the leather in just enough that an edge caught on the trigger, then bammo.

I dunno. But he had to know that the holster was going bad. The leather that curled into the trigger guard really looks worn. I think it's a bad design, but user error is a significant factor here. Along with the squishy Glock trigger.....

tk

[malabar]

I like your out of the box thinking. If this is actually worn between the belt and pants then the stability issue may be offset. I'm with the "Old Grump" on this one. I sure hope it works.

Time will tell. But I think you're right: If fall-off is a problem that I can't fix, putting it between the belt would almost certainly fix it.

tk

[katsass]

Thanks for the tip!

You know the funny thing is, I've worked on a design that uses the same principle -- a steel-reinforced paddle that held the gun above the belt. But my first prototype was a miserable failure and I was so disheartened I haven't yet gone back to it. <g>

So this one attached to the belt via those little straps that wrap around the paddle?

tk

The little paddle was (is) a steel belt loop, the belt goes through it --- no straps. The pic I found on Google showed up after I looked for '1950 style semi-shoulder holster'. As I said before it isn't too good a pic. I'm digging around to see if I can find a better one. I think that that was the biggest problem --- everything rode on the belt. and the addition of a paddle would have made it work --- maybe. OH, this rig was made by Smith & Wesson. Mike

TIME LAPSE - I found the pic again and got a better one to see, so disregard my statement(s) on the belt loop..

OK, I guess that I'm getting old and my memory is fading --- among other things. It looks like the damned thing is attached to the belt with (narrow) straps, not quite how I remembered it.--- but, as said, I must be getting old. I would think that maybe a Kydex paddle (similar to AKER's type) would do he rig a whole bunch of help, along with heavier straps.. As I mentioned, these rigs had interchangeable holsters, all the way up to 4" Colt and S&W wheelguns. S&W may have made them for their 39 series auto's at the time but since LEO's in the Dept I was in were not allowed auto's back then,(officially) we didn't carry them anywhere that the brass could see them, so I never saw one for an auto.. Mike

P.S. These 'pull-through' holsters would loosen up after time, even with the tension screw. I have an old Hoyte shoulder rig in my junk somewhere that I ended up puting a safety strap on to ensure that I didn't lose a Mod 19 Smith while leaning out of a helecopter --- as a friend of mine did. An old lady found his shooter on the edge of a dry lakebed and brought it into the office about two weeks later. He took a bunch of crap over that one.

Edited January 16, 2012 by katsass

[marine mp]

Malabar, I'm interested as to how the vinegarooned leather will hold the molding. Is it stiff or is it semi-stiff?? (Don't sound right!!!!!!!).. All of my 'rooned holsters seem kinda limp compared to the oil-dyed holsters that retain their shape and are stiff. So much so that I no longer use the vinegaroon for holsters. What say you? Semper-fi MIke

[malabar]

Malabar, I'm interested as to how the vinegarooned leather will hold the molding. Is it stiff or is it semi-stiff?? (Don't sound right!!!!!!!).. All of my 'rooned holsters seem kinda limp compared to the oil-dyed holsters that retain their shape and are stiff. So much so that I no longer use the vinegaroon for holsters. What say you? Semper-fi MIke

There's no doubt in my mind that 'roon changes the leather, but it seems to work for me.

I mold and bake mine first, then when they are completely dry, I dip them in the 'roon, then let them dry for a bit, then redip them. I let them dry for at least 24 hours before doing anything further. I then coat the inside with Aussie Conditioner, a kind of soft wax. They don't seem to soften at all, and the 'roon creates a finish that goes right through the leather and makes them pretty water resistant.

FWIW, I like my holsters on the hard side, firmer than what you get, for example, from Milt Sparks. The 'roon does not seem to interfere with that. But folks seem to get really mixed results with it.

How are you applying your 'roon?

tk

[malabar]

The little paddle was (is) a steel belt loop, the belt goes through it --- no straps. The pic I found on Google showed up after I looked for '1950 style semi-shoulder holster'. As I said before it isn't too good a pic. I'm digging around to see if I can find a better one. I think that that was the biggest problem --- everything rode on the belt. and the addition of a paddle would have made it work --- maybe. OH, this rig was made by Smith & Wesson. Mike

TIME LAPSE - I found the pic again and got a better one to see, so disregard my statement(s) on the belt loop..

OK, I guess that I'm getting old and my memory is fading --- among other things. It looks like the damned thing is attached to the belt with (narrow) straps, not quite how I remembered it.--- but, as said, I must be getting old. I would think that maybe a Kydex paddle (similar to AKER's type) would do he rig a whole bunch of help, along with heavier straps.. As I mentioned, these rigs had interchangeable holsters, all the way up to 4" Colt and S&W wheelguns. S&W may have made them for their 39 series auto's at the time but since LEO's in the Dept I was in were not allowed auto's back then,(officially) we didn't carry them anywhere that the brass could see them, so I never saw one for an auto.. Mike

P.S. These 'pull-through' holsters would loosen up after time, even with the tension screw. I have an old Hoyte shoulder rig in my junk somewhere that I ended up puting a safety strap on to ensure that I didn't lose a Mod 19 Smith while leaning out of a helecopter --- as a friend of mine did. An old lady found his shooter on the edge of a dry lakebed and brought it into the office about two weeks later. He took a bunch of crap over that one.

Mike,

thanks for the photo. That's an interesting concept. Those little straps do seem like a weak point.

I wonder if space-age materials might have helped keep its rigidity?

OTOH...

I remember talking to a real serious IPSC shooter (one of those guys sponsored on a shooting team) a while back, and he was telling my he used kydex holsters for compttition. I asked him how it held up, and he said he wore at least one out every year. Most people will never wear one out, of course, but he practices with it every day. And maybe that's an object lesson.

I tend to think of a good holster as being a "forever" kind of accessory, but maybe that's not really reasonable. Clearly, the more money you pay for it the longer you expect it to last.

tk

[katsass]

Mike,

thanks for the photo. That's an interesting concept. Those little straps do seem like a weak point.

I wonder if space-age materials might have helped keep its rigidity?

OTOH...

I remember talking to a real serious IPSC shooter (one of those guys sponsored on a shooting team) a while back, and he was telling my he used kydex holsters for compttition. I asked him how it held up, and he said he wore at least one out every year. Most people will never wear one out, of course, but he practices with it every day. And maybe that's an object lesson.

I tend to think of a good holster as being a "forever" kind of accessory, but maybe that's not really reasonable. Clearly, the more money you pay for it the longer you expect it to last.

tk

From the grump; As to a firm holster, I use two layers of 4/5, 5/6, or a mix of each. I bond them together on their flesh sides to form a single piece of workable material. With two grain layers, when properly molded, warmed and dried, I get very firm holsters --- much more rigid than a single piece of equal weight. It does take a bit more stitching, however, but you end up with a lined holster in effect, along with the ability to dye different colors. I agree, a 'forever' rig doesn't seem logical, however by looking through the book "Packing Iron" I see quite a few holsters that sure look serviceable --- at 100+ years of age. If mine last anything close of that long I'll be happy --- and long gone. Maybe someday down the road someone will find an old one of mine, see the 'katsass' logo, and scratch his head in curiosity.

OTOH I don't think much of Kydex for holsters, it just goes against the grain, sort of. But, as a paddle attached to the back of the holster, that goes inside the belt (and trousers) and is molded roughly to the thigh, it might provide some (enough?) stability against 'fall-out' --- just a thought. Mike

[KAYAK45]

Got a question on your construction technique. What type (thick and wide) steel are you using, if you don't mind saying?

Thanks

Kevin