New Holster Model

[K-Man]

Here are the pics of the pancake holster we made, with a SIG P226 in it. There is approximately a 15-18 degreee cant on the gun. The holster is now about 8 years old and still functions as well as the first day.

And a picture of the other holster design I mentioned:

[TwinOaks]

K-man, I've been reading this and having flashbacks!!! Ah......hindsight is a fine thing, but only once one has the seasoning to see their mistakes.

Malabar, I hope you have good success with your holster design. In a year or two, when you're writing a 'thank you' letter to a forum member for helping you learn what works, what sells, and for pointing out where you were going wrong.....gimme a shout. I think I can drag up the letter I sent to K-man doing exactly the same thing. This thread is strikingly similar to the thread in which I made a complete arse of myself...arguing holster design with one of the best in the business. Thankfully, that post was lost in the great crash.

[Eaglestroker]

Reading this thread has had me again thinking about an idea I've had for some time now. I was thinking about how to keep the grip of a 1911 or some other long gripped pistol tighter against one's body, even when at a regular ride height. I too was picturing the holster as sort of a see-saw. I thought, what if there was a thick piece of leather on the outside of the holster on the back side along the slide (or barrel in the case of a revolver,) and below the belt, that would keep the holster and gun from tipping away. It would have to be pretty thick, at least a 1/4 inch, about 16 oz. Go put your highest riding holster on and wedge something about that thickness (maybe even thicker) between the holster and your body, and below the belt, and see what you think. It seems to work. I think it might even be a good option for IWB and normal ride heights. I've read about a high ride design by Bob Mernickle that I think may be along the same lines, though I'm not sure.

Colt Hammerless

Mernickle does this with a cross draw they make. Seems popular I see them alot on the S&W forums.

[woodandsteel]

Well, as a relative newcomer (I've been making holsters just over a year) this has been a very educational thread. Let's keep it from getting nasty, though. K-man, you've got many years of experience you share from, and I appreciate the opportunity to learn from your insights. Your points make sense.

On Malabar's behalf, though, Milt Sparks, Galco, and El Paso Saddlery all make flat-backed holsters, and that design does seem to add to comfort, even if it loses something in strength or retention.

http://www.epsaddlery.com/pc-150-11-snap-off-elite-thumbreak.aspx

When I first started making my own holsters, I made a flat-backed IWB design that is quite comfortable, and I still wear it, but I never quite got it right, and decided it was more work than it was worth.

K-man, after I made that holster, I saw a picture of yours and though, "Well, shoot! That's what I was going for, and that guy already did it way better!".

Why did you stop making that one?

[katsass]

From the grumpy old guy; I lurk here a lot, and add a comment or two when I feel it warranted or when I feel that I may add an idea or experience which may assist someone. I get the hell out leave the thread alone when my voice would just be reiterating the same advice in repetition, or when someones 'knowledge' and/or ego seems to be getting in the way of constructive comment --- I just see no reason in that sort of thing. One thing I seem to have noticed is that many different styles of rigs are presented on here, and certain styles seem to be in vogue regionally, ie. that which is popular in the mid-west may not do as well in the mountain states or out here in the desert. I personally have had but one request for and IWB holster in the last five years. That one was changed to an inside the belt rig, and a year or so later the customer met me and thanked me for the suggestion.and the change. Of course, I'm but a dinky little outfit that makes items to order and in no way am I 'THE EXPERT' on the ergo-dynamics and geometric relationships between anatomical structure of the human creature and a chunk of dead cow skin. I just know (think that I know?) what I can make work well for my customers. One thing I do know however, is that lack of age or experience really is no block for ideas. Thinking along a different line than tradition dictates is the seed of invention.and I dislike seeing contention rear it's uncomely countenance in, what I would expect to be a positive, or at the least, a non confrontational congress of ideas. Mike

Edited January 21, 2012 by katsass

[K-Man]

woodandsteel: I set aside making/offering IWB and OWB holsters last year when we went fulltime living in our 5th Wheel RV. I simply did not have the room to accomodate all the logistics associated with making those styles of holster.

katsass: I don't know that anyone has claimed here to be an EXPERT when it comes to holsters. Malabar asked for suggestions/criticism. I simply related what my experience(s) has been and the foundation for the same. In my comments, I don't see any reason to waist bandwidth with flowery responses. My experience has been, too, that people are not very receptive to being told they're doing something wrong, especially if they've been doing it that way for years.

If I was offbase, I doubt seriously we would have the long term success that we have had. I have learned from Tony Kanaley, Matt Del Fatti, and Lou Alessi (rest his soul) primarily - followed their processes and basic design form. Each of those gentlemen have/had 30+ years of experience designing and making holsters. I think it would be fair to say they know what they're doing. Though I've seen some holstermakers with an equal or greater number of years of experience who's advice/processes I wouldn't give you a wooden nickel for. Why? Because their holsters break down in short order in all respects.

Designing a new holster is a challenge for most, while others have a much easier time at it. I agree that lack of age or experience should not be a block for designing and incorporating new features. Understanding the basics, and implementing those in the design, is holstermaking 101 though.

People are welcome to do whatever they want, however they want, when it comes to making a holster. If I stepped on toes with my responses, well, maybe they should have been wearing steel toe boots....

[Denster]

Maybe it's just me. Where does anyone see any contention rearing it's ugly head here? Malabar asked for critique on a new design that I presume he is going to market. When I post holsters I have built for critique I may not agree with some of the responses I get but sometimes it does cause me to rethink some things and make changes I didn't notice but someone else did and I end up with a better product in the end. Marketing a new design can be expensive in time materials and energy it's not a bad thing to have some different input. Obviously Malabar is somewhat new to the business, we all were at one time, but it is obvious he does have some talent.

I just noticed K-Man's response. Yeah what he said!

Edited January 21, 2012 by Denster

[woodandsteel]

If I was offbase, I doubt seriously we would have the long term success that we have had. I have learned from Tony Kanaley, Matt Del Fatti, and Lou Alessi (rest his soul) primarily - followed their processes and basic design form. Each of those gentlemen have/had 30+ years of experience designing and making holsters. I think it would be fair to say they know what they're doing. Though I've seen some holstermakers with an equal or greater number of years of experience who's advice/processes I wouldn't give you a wooden nickel for. Why? Because their holsters break down in short order in all respects.

Designing a new holster is a challenge for most, while others have a much easier time at it. I agree that lack of age or experience should not be a block for designing and incorporating new features. Understanding the basics, and implementing those in the design, is holstermaking 101 though.

The more I make holsters, inspect classic designs and other makers' work, and try to to come up with my own good, functional, improved designs, the more I see that most of the best design ideas have already been done before. Often when I go through the process of tweaking design ideas, I end up with the same design someone before me ended up with. Many times we're all finding the same solution to a problem. That shouldn't discourage anyone from still trying to make a new and better design but, for me, it instills more respect for the great designs and makers who have come before me.

I haven't had the benefit of apprenticing with a holster maker, but with the internet I've spent a lot of time studying the work of Alessi, Del Fatti, Tony Kanaley, Lobo, Particle, K-Man, Dwight, Katsass, Brigade Gunleather, Ryan Grizzle, and many more. When I first saw Malabar's work a few weeks ago, I asked him about how he was doing it, to learn how he was doing his flat-backed holsters. I try to learn from everyone!

Edited January 22, 2012 by woodandsteel

[woodandsteel]

woodandsteel: I set aside making/offering IWB and OWB holsters last year when we went fulltime living in our 5th Wheel RV. I simply did not have the room to accomodate all the logistics associated with making those styles of holster.

It's a really great looking execution of the hybrid style design. I especially like your use of the punched slot as a solution to molding and stitching around the end of the barrel. Was it a profitable design?

[K-Man]

woodandsteel: It was very much a profitable design. The picture shown is of the prototype. I made a couple of minor tweaks afterwards, but nothing that changed the shape or function of the holster.

Edited January 22, 2012 by K-Man