Compact Machine?

[Suicide]

Hi folks,

Just wandering if you can recommend me any of compact sewing machine available on the market?

I need very ocasionally sew 2 layers belts (8-10 oz), dog collars, wristbands, may be bags.... It is not necessary have to be electric (and actually I'm sure if such exists it is hand operated).

I don't have much space to setup anything like heavy duty industrial stuff with the stands etc.....

So far I know the only one can be called "compact" in my understanding - Tippmann Boss. It would be perfect but price....

So please suggest me on the subject.

Thanks in advance!

[MadMorbius]

I found the Boss to be quite reasonably priced considering it's portability and versatility. And yes, it's footprint is quite small, meaning less floor space in the shop needs to be dedicated to a full sized machine and table.

I have a Juki LU-563 walking foot that will rip through all kinds of tactical nylon but won't run the 277 thread required for gun leather. For lighter projects, it's fine, but for the money, the Boss was the clear winner.

Speed and "controlabilty" was the driving factor for me. Ruining a beautiful peice of gun leather with an out of control walking foot is a mistake nobody wants to make more than once. With the Boss, I'm in absolute control.

If you're doing belts, it'll be more of an excercise machine than a sewing machine, but it's still great at what it does. It was also quick to set up and easy to use...the hoslter below was stitched up in about 5 minutes start to finish, and it was my first use of the Boss. I do have experience with other machines, so I'm sure that played a part in things but see for yourself:

Edited January 24, 2012 by MadMorbius

[Jimbob]

I am surly not a pro, but there is NO such thing in leather sewing machine as a "compact" machine....these table models ( Sailrite and such....) are for webbing and sails .....none of them will do serious "ever now and then" leather sewing.....you will be out of some serious money and find yourself with an boat anker....

Look for an old Singer (111, 211, 16-88 or such....) build yourself a micro table and get a small motor....still somewhat portable, put rollers under it for moving it arround....if you do light stuff a Singer or Adler short arm patcher would be cool, hand wheeled and sure will fit on a bench....but only for 69thread and down....

These Boss machines are slow and expensive, the new aluminium ones lack quality I read..

.well, thats why they call them industrial sewing machines...no such thing to put on the kitchen table...if you do leather work...haha...now guess how I know that....?!!!!

greetings

Jimbob

[Suicide]

Thanks for your opinions, guys. All these are very valuable.

I'll have a look at all you suggested - either used Boss as starter or something from the Jimbob's list.

[Wizcrafts]

Thanks for your opinions, guys. All these are very valuable.

I'll have a look at all you suggested - either used Boss as starter or something from the Jimbob's list.

Investigate all available options when it comes to buying a sewing machine that really sews the kind of leather most leathercrafters want to assemble.

I too was looking for a portable solution, but soon realized that is wasn't going to happen. I have had and still have a Singer 29 Patcher. It is a fine machine that sews with up to #138 thread, but only into a little over 6 mm (about 5/16 inch). Typical walking foot machines will sew through 3/8 inch (10 mm), but again, are not good at tensioning thread thicker than #207 (T 210).

The real problem with these and all flat feed industrial and so-called "industrial strength" home and sail makers' machines is the metal in the pressure, take-up and tensioning system is too light weight to handle the stress of penetrating, holding down and pulling thick thread up through thick or dense leather. I have had all metal industrial machines that will not hold down 1/4 inch of veg-tan leather, even with the top tension adjuster all the way down. The metal parts on portable walking foot machines are a joke. Trying to sew a holster will probably cause the critical moving levers to bend. They are not designed to take the stress of sewing hard leather.

A real leather sewing machine will have very thick hardened steel parts in the take-up, needle bar and presser bar parts. Its springs for tensioning the presser foot, top thread tension disks and bobbin case tension will be about twice the thickness and strength of standard industrial springs, which are already twice that of home sewing machines.

The available needle sizes for various machines plays a part in choosing a leather sewing machine. A typical walking foot machine uses a system 135x16 or 135x17 needle, in sizes up to 200 (Singer size 25). These needles are only able to sew through a little more than 10 to 11 mm of anything. The alternating outside foot may only be able to lift up high enough to clear 10 mm of work, before the needle bar hits it on the down stroke.

Real leather sewing machines use a much longer needle system, like types 328 (long) or 794 (longer). A machine that uses a 794 (also 7x3) needle type can sew over 3/4 inch (20 mm+), depending on how the machine is set up. The machines using these needles have extremely thick moving parts and springs. The cases are massive as are the flywheels. Sewing with #415 thread is not uncommon with these machines. Their needles are available in sizes up to #28 or #30; the size of the nails used to hold wooden porches together.

Just some thoughts for you to keep in mind before you invest in a sewing machine based upon the seller's hype.

[Suicide]

Investigate all available options when it comes to buying a sewing machine that really sews the kind of leather most leathercrafters want to assemble.

I too was looking for a portable solution, but soon realized that is wasn't going to happen.

.....

Thanks for this info, Wizcrafts.

I'll continue my investigations. Actually I'm looking mostly not into "portable" versions in means I could take it with myself going to somethere, but more just into compact size solution. So it won't be harmful for me if lets say that sort of machine will have 2 tons weight and made of gunmetal and hicarbon steel. If having that it takes just about 2 sq feet of surface to be deployed onto - it satisfies me perfectly. So I'm more about space consuming rather than its portability.

Of course if that system will have both compactness and portability it would be great, but as I have got from your investigations done it won't going to happen.

[Wizcrafts]

Thanks for this info, Wizcrafts.

I'll continue my investigations. Actually I'm looking mostly not into "portable" versions in means I could take it with myself going to somethere, but more just into compact size solution. So it won't be harmful for me if lets say that sort of machine will have 2 tons weight and made of gunmetal and hicarbon steel. If having that it takes just about 2 sq feet of surface to be deployed onto - it satisfies me perfectly. So I'm more about space consuming rather than its portability.

Of course if that system will have both compactness and portability it would be great, but as I have got from your investigations done it won't going to happen.

My new Cowboy CB4500 occupies 68 x 104 CM of floor space. It is a stand-up to operate machine. Total weight is about 350 pounds. The machine base is on casters that can be locked or left movable.

[Suicide]

My new Cowboy CB4500 occupies 68 x 104 CM of floor space. It is a stand-up to operate machine. Total weight is about 350 pounds. The machine base is on casters that can be locked or left movable.

Thansk, Wizcraft. This is something interesting - I thought that Cowboy is much much bigger.

[19th century bootmaker]

Hi folks,

Just wandering if you can recommend me any of compact sewing machine available on the market?

I need very ocasionally sew 2 layers belts (8-10 oz), dog collars, wristbands, may be bags.... It is not necessary have to be electric (and actually I'm sure if such exists it is hand operated).

I don't have much space to setup anything like heavy duty industrial stuff with the stands etc.....

So far I know the only one can be called "compact" in my understanding - Tippmann Boss. It would be perfect but price....

So please suggest me on the subject.

Thanks in advance!

Junker & Ruh is small and lever action and sews wonderfully. Try Greenman Leather Works on here. I got one from Stephen last year and was totally amazed and satisfied with it.

JesseLee

[Wizcrafts]

Thansk, Wizcraft. This is something interesting - I thought that Cowboy is much much bigger.

I forgot to list the US measurements. It occupies a floor and wall space of about 26.5 x 41 inches. The rotating locking casters could extend out, adding a few more inches to the floor space. The pedestal floor base itself is 20 x 27 inches.

[Suicide]

I forgot to list the US measurements. It occupies a floor and wall space of about 26.5 x 41 inches. The rotating locking casters could extend out, adding a few more inches to the floor space. The pedestal floor base itself is 20 x 27 inches.

Thanks alot! Anyway sounds much less scary than I thought before.

[Andrew Chee]

Thanks alot! Anyway sounds much less scary than I thought before.

The thing about flatbed industrial sewing machines is that they really aren't "that" big. They're certainly bigger than home machines but the sewing machine heads themselves aren't really that big. It's the stupid sewing machine tables themselves. They're basically all standardized to about 4 feet long by about 2 feet wide. I don't know if you can even find anything smaller. On a Cobra or Artisan Toro, they have specialized tables because they are cylinder bed machines which makes them a bit smaller footprint wise even though the machines themselves are bigger.

I suppose that industrial sewing machines and stuff are designed with standardized factories in mind and not small timers like us with limited workshop space. I recently bought a skiver from cobra steve. The machine itself was actually rather compact (maybe 20" long) but it came on a standardized sewing machine table that was 4ft. long. I ended up sawing the table down, removing the K legs, and mounting it on a bench I had against the wall. Saved a lot of space.

But I digress. I noticed that you mentioned that you sewed belts, and bags up to about 8oz weight total. Honestly if you don't go heavier than that and you don't go heavier than say a 138 thread (which would probably look very nice in a bag), you can probably get away with something like a Sailrite LS1 if you add one of those powerplus wheels and smooth presser feet. You can probably find those machines on Craigslist for a pretty decent price (I almost bought one recently for like $350). Something like a Consew 205 or 206 size machine would be much better but then you're talking about more money and larger footprint (because of the stupid table). Hard to find something perfect I guess.

8oz total is not terribly thick and would be a bit of overkill to buy a Cowboy 4500 or Cobra class 4 for something like that. Especially if you plan on sewing even thinner stuff with smaller thread. Anything under a 138 thread isn't really in the comfort zone of these big machines. I have an Artisan Toro 3000 (same as a Cowboy 3000 or a Cobra class 3) and it takes a lot of adjustment to get it to use smaller threads and thinner leathers. I ended up getting a smaller machine to sew lighter stuff. On the other hand, if you think that you might want to sew heavier stuff like holsters in the future which would require at least a 207 thread, then something like one of these heavier machines would be necessary.

Anyways, these have been my experience. I originally purchased the heavier Toro 3000 thinking that it should be able to sew from thick to (somewhat) light. And while that is technically true, I've since learned that it is not really practical. There's really no one machine that can do everything. I have two machines now and I'm pretty happy with both of them. I've found that a lot of folks on this forum do a lot of saddle and holster work and are therefore justifiably drawn to heavier weight machines and recommend them. They're great machines but may or may not be right for you depending on what you work on.

Andrew

Edited January 26, 2012 by Andrew Chee

[Suicide]

Thanks for sharing your experience, Andrew!

Anyways, these have been my experience. I originally purchased the heavier Toro 3000 thinking that it should be able to sew from thick to (somewhat) light. And while that is technically true, I've since learned that it is not really practical. There's really no one machine that can do everything. I have two machines now and I'm pretty happy with both of them.

This is what I was afraid of

BTW I gave a try Singer 144 at local antique (sick! ) shop and found it would be hard to go with bags (mainly gussets) on this type of machine. So I most likely will look at postbed or cylinder but not a flatbed. But having 2 machines for such a small projects what I plan to do would be kind of overkill.

[Andrew Chee]

Thanks for sharing your experience, Andrew!

This is what I was afraid of

BTW I gave a try Singer 144 at local antique (sick! ) shop and found it would be hard to go with bags (mainly gussets) on this type of machine. So I most likely will look at postbed or cylinder but not a flatbed. But having 2 machines for such a small projects what I plan to do would be kind of overkill.

Not sure what your budget is but check out something like the Techsew 2700. Not sure what exact machine that it's a clone of but It's a cylinder bed machine designed for light to medium leather that might fit your needs.

Andrew

[Suicide]

Not sure what your budget is but check out something like the Techsew 2700. Not sure what exact machine that it's a clone of but It's a cylinder bed machine designed for light to medium leather that might fit your needs.

]

Thanks again, I'll chekc it out.

[Chavez]

Hi Suicide,

Have you bought a machine yet?

I'm looking at the Boss at the moment. The size seems great, but not sure if it has to be fixed to a bench. I would prefer a "portable" solution, e.g. attach the machine to a cutting-board base so I can remove it from my table when not using it... But is it going to be stable enough?

[Suicide]

Hi Chavez,

Unfortunately haven't yet. But based on my investigations even for Boss cutting board isn't enough as a base. All the fixing options I have seen till now were any sorts of tables/benches but not just a boards.

I also don't like much the stitch it is making on the wrong side of an item. Front side stitch is pretty ok though. I also couldn't find any meaningful solution to get stitch laid into a grooves having that grooves on the both side of the piece. It apeared there is of course no problems with the front side, but again with the back side there is 50x50 that the stitch lies into premade groove.

So currently I actually brush up my handstitching skills