Versatility In A Heavy Machine

[Tree Reaper]

Can someone give me some insight on whether a machine that's capable of sewing 7/8" leather might be too heavy for sewing lighter goods or do they work just as well on thin stuff?

I have a concern that a heavy duty machine will only do a decent job on heavy items.

Thanks.

Kevin.

[Techsew Ron]

Hi Kevin,

Depends how thin you need to sew. The Techsew 5100 for example will sew from 7oz all the way up to 7/8" thick. To go from thick to thin you just need to make a few minor tension adjustments and go down to a smaller needle and thread size.

If you're sewing mainly thinner items up to about 3/8" you can go with a cylinder walking foot machine like the Techsew 2700.

What kind of items are you sewing?

Edited January 25, 2012 by Ronnie

[Tree Reaper]

Hey Ronnie;

I have a cowboy coming from Toledo, I didn't know you had machines here in Canada or I would have considered looking at Techsew.

The only reason I decided on the cowboy machine was because of the reviews on this site and the fact that Bob is a sponsor.

Most of the leather I'm sewing right now is 3/16 to 1/4 inch.

I thought if I had a machine that would sew up to 7/8 I could use it for anything but after reading some of the posts on here I'm wondering if the machine might be too aggressive for lighter projects.

Kevin.

Hi Kevin,

Depends how thin you need to sew. The Techsew 5100 for example will sew from 7oz all the way up to 7/8" thick. To go from thick to thin you just need to make a few minor tension adjustments and go down to a smaller needle and thread size.

If you're sewing mainly thinner items up to about 3/8" you can go with a cylinder walking foot machine like the Techsew 2700.

What kind of items are you sewing?

[KAYAK45]

If you have this question now, before it ships, call Bob. He will let you know if it's the right machine for your use. You can indeed trust his answer!

Me, I love my CB 4500, but then I don't try to sew light leathers.

Kevin

[Andrew Chee]

Hey Ronnie;

I have a cowboy coming from Toledo, I didn't know you had machines here in Canada or I would have considered looking at Techsew.

The only reason I decided on the cowboy machine was because of the reviews on this site and the fact that Bob is a sponsor.

Most of the leather I'm sewing right now is 3/16 to 1/4 inch.

I thought if I had a machine that would sew up to 7/8 I could use it for anything but after reading some of the posts on here I'm wondering if the machine might be too aggressive for lighter projects.

Kevin.

I bought an Artisan Toro 3000 a little while back. It sews great for thicker stuff. I tried going down to two layers of 3-4oz veg tan with a 92 thread and it took a lot of tension adjustment. Then if I wanted to go to a thicker thread and thicker material, I would have to spend a lot of time readjusting the tension again. These machines are designed for heavier thread and when you go down too light, it becomes difficult to adjust the tension so that you get the knot sitting inside the material. I currently have the machine set up for 138 thread and it does a nice job anywhere from 2 to 6 layers of 4oz veg tan.

I ended up buying a Cobra class 17 machine for my lighter material. When I sew a single layer of 4 oz (like if I turn an edge and want to topstitch the turn) I use the class 17 with 69 thread. I can also use this to sew canvas liners for bags which the Toro would definitely not be good for and my wife's home machine can't handle (especially near the zippers). It works much better that way.

I'm personally more of a hobbyist than a manufacturer so I switch thread thicknesses and materials all the time depending on the particular project that I'm working on. I originally bought the heavier machine with a similar rationale as you. I thought I'd get a heavier class machine thinking that a heavier machine should also be able to sew thinner material whereas the reverse would definitely not be true. I've found out since that although technically true, it's not very practical because of all the adjustments you would have to make between sizes.

Because of that I bought I bought the second machine. Although I ended up spending more money then I originally had hoped to spend, I'm pretty happy with the setup since I can get a good stitch with whatever I'm working on without a lot of fuss.

Reading your message makes me think that you're not really sewing material that's that light. 3/16 is still 12oz total. So assuming you're not going below a 138 thread on that you should be able to stick with one machine. Anyways, I hope my story gives you some perspective.

Andrew

[Tree Reaper]

Thanks for the replies, I'll stick with the 4500 and hope it meets my needs.

[JoelR]

FWIW, I have the Cowboy 3500 and switch between 346 and 69 threads all the time. The first couple of times I made the adjustments it took a while but now I know the settings by feel and only need a quick once-over on a piece of scrap for final adjustments. I haven't tried it, but I would bet a pseudo settings system could be determined using a trigger-pull gauge or other similar tension gauge if you needed to change around a bit.

[KAYAK45]

Kevin, EVEN.. IF.. YOUR Cowboy turns out to be a little heavy, don't sweat it. You could p/u an old singer..say..31-15.. for a couple hundred and leave it set up for #69 all the time. (Actually can use up to a #23 and 138 thread/needle) I started with the Singer and then got the bigger steel and couldn't be happier having the "light weight" set up and ready to go anytime.

I even added a "middle" singer walking foot 111W155. Can (dose) use #24 needle and #138/207 thread.

Kevin

[Wizcrafts]

For the hell of it, last night I sewed all the way around a leg cuff remnant from a pair of black jeans I shortened a while ago. I did this on my CB4500, with a #23 needle and Weaver #138 thread. The stitches were perfect on both sides and the Cowboy had no trouble walking over the big seams on the sides of the cuff.

I had already set the machine up to sew with #138 thread for a run of wholesale guitar straps. I had to back off the top tension and only go through one hole in the top post, then increase the bobbin tension a bit to pull the knots well inside the leather.

So, yes, the 441 clone machines can be used for lighter work, with smaller needles and thread and some tweaking of the thread path.

There is still the humongous feed dog and throat plate slot to deal with, but I am going to have a narrow set milled at a machine shop.

[Tree Reaper]

I'm taking Fergs advice and starting to copy and save some of this.

I had already set the machine up to sew with #138 thread for a run of wholesale guitar straps. I had to back off the top tension and only go through one hole in the top post, then increase the bobbin tension a bit to pull the knots well inside the leather.

[TwinOaks]

There was a similar discussion to this on about 3 years ago, but I don't feel like digging it up. In a nutshell, all the reasons you've listed PLUS everything in the other posts...all lead up to the same thing: Most leather shops wind up with at least two sewing machines, and often times 3-4. The machines are quite capable, but if you're setting up for any kind of production speed, a 'one machine shop' isn't practical. It's much more economical and practical to have secondary and tertiary machines set up so all you have to do is move from one to the other. One big machine, one medium machine, and a patcher.....that's about the requirements if you're planning on having a dedicated leather shop. Of course, if you're just a hobbiest then it doesn't make sense to have the extra money tied up multiple machines.

[leatherkind]

....

There is still the humongous feed dog and throat plate slot to deal with, but I am going to have a narrow set milled at a machine shop.

I love my 4500 and I use it for light leather or fabric along with almost an inch of stiff oil tan.

I however agree with you on the width of the bottom feed dog... it could be made narrower.

At least they could have made it to match harness presser feet so the presser foot does not push soft material in to the feed dog well.

I am sure there is a market for narrower assembly (feed dog and the plate).

It would be great if you show us pics when it is done.

Thank you.

[Luke Hatley]

I have learned this...The thinner the leather....the smaller the thread and the smaller the needle........this works in my Adler 205-370..