Wickett And Craig Vs. Hermann Oak

[hidepounder]

Colbyj.....what method are you using to case your leather? I'm having difficulty understanding what you mean when you say you can't get it cased right. The casing process is the same regardless of the brand leather you are using. Can you elaborate a little?

Bobby

[colttrainer]

I find that I need to let wickett dry out more than herman before I can start tooling. Just my 2cents.

[colbyj]

Bob- I definitely understand what youre saying. I think what I am trying to say is that everything is remaining constant on my end. Same casing process, same tools, same everything. So my question to everyone, was if they changed there casing process or anything like that with the W&C. I know the W&C is a good product, so by no means am I trying to say the leather isn't good leather. I was just wanting some more experienced opinions about the leather.

On another note, since I am primarily making small products like belts and wallets, what cuts would be best for my needs? I am thinking double shoulders would be the best way to go.

Colby

[hidepounder]

Bob- I definitely understand what youre saying. I think what I am trying to say is that everything is remaining constant on my end. Same casing process, same tools, same everything. So my question to everyone, was if they changed there casing process or anything like that with the W&C. I know the W&C is a good product, so by no means am I trying to say the leather isn't good leather. I was just wanting some more experienced opinions about the leather.

On another note, since I am primarily making small products like belts and wallets, what cuts would be best for my needs? I am thinking double shoulders would be the best way to go.

Colby

Hi Colby,

The reason I asked what method you were using for casing is because you mentioned that you cased by pulling your leather through a pan of water and based on that comment you are just wetting the leather but not casing it. Many people mistakenly use the term "casing" for wetting but I didn't want to assume that was the case here. The casing process can be achieved with some variations, such as using additives or using casing boxes ILO bags, etc., but the bottom line is that leather is either cased or it isn't. The process doesn't change. It doesn't matter if I'm using W&C, HO, Thoroughbred or Tandy leather, the casing process is the same. So if my assumption is correct and you are simply wetting your leather, you will benefit greatly by casing. However if you are truly casing your leather then there are a couple of things you might try.

The first is to re-sharpen your swivel knife blade. You would be amazed at how many people cut with dull blades and don't know it and that's understandable because if a person has never had a sharp blade how would they know what sharp really is? As Brent mentioned, the chattering you feel is corrosion forming on the blade due to the residual chemicals in the leather. Sometimes you get a side which is just difficult to cut and requires a lot of stropping (which does dull your blade, BTW).

So the next thing to try is adding a small amount of Joy dish washing detergent and a small amount of liquid glycerine to your casing solution. The soap is a surfactant and helps the leather absorb the water more completely and the glycerine seems to help the leather to cut a little smoother. I think it's acting like a lubricant, but I can't prove that. Additionally when I have a side which is difficult to cut I will apply a light lather of Ivory bar soap to the surface of the leather, again, to act as a lubricant while cutting.

With all that said, I rarely need to apply anything to the surface of the leather when using cased leather. So anyway, hopefully some of this will help, however, if I have made any assumptions in error I apologize and please ignore me!

Good luck,

Bobby

Edited March 9, 2012 by hidepounder

[abn]

Colby, I agree with Art... If you're not using a ton of leather, you should consider the double shoulders sold by Tandy. The advantage is that you can visit the store and leaf through the stack yourself, sizing up the feel, thickness and quality. I think all of Tandy's double shoulders are now imported, and some are real garbage. However, I've never walked away from the store without leather. There's always at least one or two shoulders that are clean and consistent.

By the way, if you were happy with what you received from Springfield, you might just go back to them. I think it's great that you're experimenting, but at some point, you might want to cut your losses and go back to the "sure thing."

Good luck! -Alex

[abn]

While W & C leather is generally of a softer temper than HO they will double or triple plate it at your request IIRC for free - this gives it a much firmer hand

so I went with WC because they put out a consistent product that you can adjust in finishing. It the product is too soft, have it jacked harder. The finishing dept at WC is their strong point, use it.

Chuck and/or Art -- at the risk of taking this thread in a new direction, would you explain what you mean by "triple plate" and "jacked harder"? I've always purchased my leather straight from a retailer and have no experience with tanneries. Still, I'm curious about what you mean by the above quotes... It sounds like a tannery can customize your order to give it more firmness, etc.?

[Art]

The tannery can plate, a big press they use to press the leather between two plates, or jack, a roller press that they can set to compress the leather. This adds stiffness through compression of the fibers. There are also chemicals that can be applied to accomplish something similar chemically instead of physically. Weaver sells that chemical although I have never used it.

Art

Chuck and/or Art -- at the risk of taking this thread in a new direction, would you explain what you mean by "triple plate" and "jacked harder"? I've always purchased my leather straight from a retailer and have no experience with tanneries. Still, I'm curious about what you mean by the above quotes... It sounds like a tannery can customize your order to give it more firmness, etc.?

[Colt Hammerless]

I talked with Matt from W&C for probably 3 hours at the Wickenburg show in Feburary. He said that they can press it to different levels of firmness. He mentioned how one big name holster manufacturer will specify they want it pressed or "holstered" at 5000 psi, where another will specify they want it at 6000 psi. I had them "holster" a side I got from them recently, though I didn't specify how firm I wanted it (didn't know you could do that at the time.) I haven't made anything with the piece yet, but it feels about as firm as HO I've used. Also, if you are buying drum dyed leather, some of if has the dye struck completely through, and some doesn't. If you want it struck all the way through, just ask, and they'll pick out a piece for you.

Colt Hammerless

[esmache]

Hi Colby,

The reason I asked what method you were using for casing is because you mentioned that you cased by pulling your leather through a pan of water and based on that comment you are just wetting the leather but not casing it. Many people mistakenly use the term "casing" for wetting but I didn't want to assume that was the case here. The casing process can be achieved with some variations, such as using additives or using casing boxes ILO bags, etc., but the bottom line is that leather is either cased or it isn't. The process doesn't change. It doesn't matter if I'm using W&C, HO, Thoroughbred or Tandy leather, the casing process is the same. So if my assumption is correct and you are simply wetting your leather, you will benefit greatly by casing. However if you are truly casing your leather then there are a couple of things you might try.

The first is to re-sharpen your swivel knife blade. You would be amazed at how many people cut with dull blades and don't know it and that's understandable because if a person has never had a sharp blade how would they know what sharp really is? As Brent mentioned, the chattering you feel is corrosion forming on the blade due to the residual chemicals in the leather. Sometimes you get a side which is just difficult to cut and requires a lot of stropping (which does dull your blade, BTW).

So the next thing to try is adding a small amount of Joy dish washing detergent and a small amount of liquid glycerine to your casing solution. The soap is a surfactant and helps the leather absorb the water more completely and the glycerine seems to help the leather to cut a little smoother. I think it's acting like a lubricant, but I can't prove that. Additionally when I have a side which is difficult to cut I will apply a light lather of Ivory bar soap to the surface of the leather, again, to act as a lubricant while cutting.

With all that said, I rarely need to apply anything to the surface of the leather when using cased leather. So anyway, hopefully some of this will help, however, if I have made any assumptions in error I apologize and please ignore me!

Good luck,

Bobby

Hi Bobby.

You said <<adding a small amount of Joy dish washing detergent and a small amount of liquid glycerine to your casing solution>>

Can you tell me how much is the amount of dish washing detergent and glycerine you add to the water of the casing solution?

Thank you in advance.

Marcelo

[hidepounder]

Hi Bobby.

You said <<adding a small amount of Joy dish washing detergent and a small amount of liquid glycerine to your casing solution>>

Can you tell me how much is the amount of dish washing detergent and glycerine you add to the water of the casing solution?

Thank you in advance.

Marcelo

Marcelo i probably put about teaspoon of soap and 1/2 teaspoon of glycerin to two quarts of water. Sometimes I use a little more of each. I don't measure.....I just add a little and I'm done.

Bobby