Using Cores

[yuliya]

As I am waiting for the lace to arrive in the mail, I've been trying to figure out the rest of the pieces of the puzzle:-)

I have a couple of questions:

1) I want to make a 4 strand lead, but I want to put a core in it to prevent stretching and for extra strength. It seems that everyone says that kangaroo lace is very strong, but how strong is it without a core?

Considering that I want to make a show lead for myself for obedience and conformation rings, I want them to be relatively thin. For obedience, I don't need beads, but for conformation ring I would like to put the beads on. it seems that the largest beads I was able to find were with 5mm hole diameter. I have 30-40 lbs dogs and 80-100 lbs dog. What kind of core can I use to make a leash that is thin and strong to handle those dogs? Plus terriers are expected to spar in the ring and I've seen some dogs go bonkers and practically dangle on the end of the lead in the air:-) although my dogs will not do that, I still want to make sure that the leash can handle 40lb dog go crazy:-)

2) I think I understand how to braid around the core, but I can't figure out what to do with the core on the back braiding and how it suppose to prevent the stretching. Could someone please explain to me that?

Thank you all!

yuliya

[Sovran81]

1. This is just my assumptions concerning a core. A core will only give added strength if it is attached at both ends. The only way I know to attach at both ends would be to do an eye splice using twisted rope as your core. this will give you the strength end to end and keep the diameter from getting too big. The splice area will still be larger than the core but thinner and stronger than other methods of doubling the rope back on itself securely. In my braiding the core doesnt give strength, its only the foundation for the braid.

2. If you splice a ring in with the core, I would braid until you hit the ring then go through the ring, possibly switching to a flat braid through the ring then go back to a round braid back over the core for a few inches. Terminate then cover with a turk.

[yuliya]

1. This is just my assumptions concerning a core. A core will only give added strength if it is attached at both ends. The only way I know to attach at both ends would be to do an eye splice using twisted rope as your core. this will give you the strength end to end and keep the diameter from getting too big. The splice area will still be larger than the core but thinner and stronger than other methods of doubling the rope back on itself securely. In my braiding the core doesnt give strength, its only the foundation for the braid.

2. If you splice a ring in with the core, I would braid until you hit the ring then go through the ring, possibly switching to a flat braid through the ring then go back to a round braid back over the core for a few inches. Terminate then cover with a turk.

First of all, thank you very much for the response!

I've been reading and re-reading it over and over trying to make some sense out of it. I should probably draw a picture to make sure I understood it correctly, but I will try without it first.

Did I understand you correctly that I would make a leash out of just a core. I will make a loop for the handle and then I would make a much smaller loop that goes through the ring on the snap bolt, then will start braiding over it?

that creates a whole new set of questions:

1) if the core has no end where and how would you start braiding?

2) this means that the braided loop that goes through the ring of the snap bolt is pretty large to allow braiding through. Is this correct?

3) I was looking at this website for a while. If you look at this page: http://www.leashesbydesign.com/Information/FAQ/FAQ.html "section 3 - how many strands do I need?", it says that all the leashes are done with the core, but if you look at the pictures of her leashes, the loops over the snap bolt are really small. so I really wonder what she does with the core, or does it mean that in her designs the core doesn't really provide the extra strength?

For that matter, now that I think of it, none of the leashes I've seen have that visible loop through the snap bolt, except the one posted by "KnotHead" on this forum, that has a very visible loop through the bolt, but he said he didn't used the core ( it's in this thread: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=38294)

Or maybe I just do not understand what you are suggesting.

[roo4u]

i used heavy harness sewing thread for my cores. i doubled the thread around the ring or snap. then i went ahead and tied my handle so that i just braided up and around ...the knot from tying the handle got covered by a combination of the braiding and the backbraiding. I did mine this way because you will lose some length in the core depending on the tightness of your braiding. my mom braided all our leashes and is so consistent that i was able to write the proper measurements for cores down and use that to set up as many of each size as i needed.

[yuliya]

i used heavy harness sewing thread for my cores. i doubled the thread around the ring or snap. then i went ahead and tied my handle so that i just braided up and around ...the knot from tying the handle got covered by a combination of the braiding and the backbraiding. I did mine this way because you will lose some length in the core depending on the tightness of your braiding. my mom braided all our leashes and is so consistent that i was able to write the proper measurements for cores down and use that to set up as many of each size as i needed.

Tracy,

but how did you handle the braiding around the snap? if your thread is doubled around the snap, then how do you braid around that core? I think I kind of getting the idea of the handle, I do not understand how to handle the snap. do you have any pictures of your leashes with the snap?

I really appreciate the advice, i am just not getting it:-(

thanks!

[roo4u]

i actually will have to take a picture of a leash to show you what im talking about...will try to do that tomorrow. i start my braid at the snap....so for a 24 inch leash i would start with 2 90 inch strands of roo pulled thru the snap to form 4 even strands...then braid is started just like normal....the two strands going thru the snap eye covered my core as the harness thread is fairly thin. plus i used black thread for dark leashes, tan for lighter colors and white for any leash that used white roo. hope that helps a bit more. leads with a ring are started the same way. now loop leads are an entirely different thing...i started mine in the middle of the core end product is more even that way.

i will drag out the camera tomorrow and try to snap a couple pics...

[woody2shoes]

Hi Yuliya, I am a complete newbie at making show leads so have been fishing around for all sorts of info too. I plan to use paracord as my lead cores. I think it's very strong from what I've heard and inexpensive to buy. Here's a tutorial I found on making a 4 strand round braided lead using a core. It shows how to finish the wrist strap. You may find it useful. I imagine you could start your core at the snap end the same way she does the wrist strap - whipping with waxed thread - then braid over the top of it. I would think that this would give the whole unit a lot of strength, especially if you then use kangaroo lacing and back braid well at the wrist strap. It's a simple design but I think it would like quite nice in the conformation ring too if you used fine lace and nice colours/beads.

http://myriam.dakotabraiding.com/Tutorials/Leash/Leash.html

Cheers.

[Vaquero1]

Hi Yuliya, i think you need the "braiding Bible".... Take a look at Bruce Grant´s enceclopedia of rawhide and leatherbraiding. there you will find nearly everything you need and wanted to know.

[Sovran81]

First of all, thank you very much for the response!

I've been reading and re-reading it over and over trying to make some sense out of it. I should probably draw a picture to make sure I understood it correctly, but I will try without it first.

Did I understand you correctly that I would make a leash out of just a core. I will make a loop for the handle and then I would make a much smaller loop that goes through the ring on the snap bolt, then will start braiding over it?

that creates a whole new set of questions:

1) if the core has no end where and how would you start braiding?

2) this means that the braided loop that goes through the ring of the snap bolt is pretty large to allow braiding through. Is this correct?

3) I was looking at this website for a while. If you look at this page: http://www.leashesby...on/FAQ/FAQ.html "section 3 - how many strands do I need?", it says that all the leashes are done with the core, but if you look at the pictures of her leashes, the loops over the snap bolt are really small. so I really wonder what she does with the core, or does it mean that in her designs the core doesn't really provide the extra strength?

For that matter, now that I think of it, none of the leashes I've seen have that visible loop through the snap bolt, except the one posted by "KnotHead" on this forum, that has a very visible loop through the bolt, but he said he didn't used the core ( it's in this thread: http://leatherworker...showtopic=38294)

Or maybe I just do not understand what you are suggesting.

Looking at the first link I believe the core doesnt go through the the ring, creating the weak point at the ring. This is what I meant by the core doesnt provide strength since its not attached to the ring. By transitioning to a flat braid when you go through the ring it will maintain a neat braided appearance. once through the ring transition back to a round braid and you will cover the "unfinished" back side of the first braid layer. Braid a few inches down and then terminate with a turk as shown in the second link.

To run the core through the ring and maintain the strength ( how big are your dogs? and arent show dogs trained to not pull? ) Use an eye splice like shown here.

There are better vids, this is just the first one I found that seemed to show how simple splicing is and explained about tapering the splice. Using this method I dont see why you couldnt just round braid the core and the splice through the ring then terminate where the core is spliced in. Then cover with a turk. or add the T braid that Brain showed in your second link. That pretty much covers the work end of the lead.

For the control end of the lead, I think i was still sleeping when I posted before. LOL I was thinking of a ring at both ends of the lead. Anyway it could be spliced in the same manner as the work end except with a larger eye and no ring. as to where to start the braid, since both ends double back on themselves around the splices I see your deliema. I would start at the control end splice working towards the loop then continue back towards the work end. This would cover the start of the strands. It may end up being neat enough to not require a turk to cover anything. The reason to start at this end is to have less strands to pull through the ring bolt when you get to the work end. I hope I have answered your questions and not confused you more. Finally I would listen to Brain first. He is the resident knot expert.

[yuliya]

how big are your dogs? and arent show dogs trained to not pull?

Joe, you would think that they would be trained not to pull. LoL.

I have two kerry blues (30-40) and a giant schanuzer 80-100lbs when fully grown

I am not worry about my dogs, I can walk them on the horse hair for a leash after we had finished the training, however I know that if it comes out good, then a few friends will ask me to make one. I want to make sure it's right. The reality is that even in the obedience rings, the dogs only behave in the ring. I've been almost knocked off my feet a few times after the dog walked out of the ring and was drugging the owner to it's crate in expect of the "jack pot" treat.

The kerries are hot dogs although not very big. If you stay on the sidelines of the conformation ring you can see some near fights, or in the ring during sparring some dogs loose their cool.

I would really hate to make a leash for someone that will break right on the brink of the fight:-)

thanks for the description, that's pretty much what I figured you meant while thinking about it last night.